Experiences with Durana and Apache Arrowleaf Clover?

[R Leo]

Greetings all!
If you're in central or east Texas, I'd like to hear your experiences with either Pennington Durana or East Texas Seed Co's Apache Arrowleaf clovers. It's early so the jury is still out on this year's Arrowleaf but I'd like to know what to expect in terms of growth.

Background:
In fall of '05 we broadcast Durana onto about 15 - 18 ac. The site had been mowed close with a shredder then the seed was broadcast with PTO broadcaster then we used a drag to shake the seed down to the soil surface. As you may know, Fall '05 and Spring '06 were rainless and few sprouts were seen. Basically, it was a bust on the legumes.

Fast forward to early November '06:
Approximately 20 ac were selected for Apache Arrowleaf clover and tetraploid rye seeding (some of this area includes the land seeded last year with the Durana). No soil test was done on the sites since these particular locations tested OK last year and no haying had been done since last test. This year, I close-shredded and lightly disked all the plots. The disking basically provided me with strips of bare earth onto which I then broadcast the seed (this year I used an ATV-type spreader and mounted it on the front of our farm buggy). The plots were measured with a GPS and the recommended seeding rates were used with rye and clover being broadcast separately. No dragging this year since I'd disked and had some bare earth showing.

So far I'd have to say that the results are spotty. I have one 4 ac. plot with consistent clover sprouting and a good show of rye. The other plots have little to no clover and only a little rye coming up.

I'm pretty new to this but, since seeding, we've had over 6" of rain so moisture isn't an issue and it seems like I should be seeing more growth from this years seeding. Am I crazy or is there something I'm not doing right?

Also, is there any chance that last year's Durana could come up too?

 

[BC]

Randy,
Planting in November is a little too late for much growth in the fall. It gets too cool but more importantly the daylight length gets too short. Right now (1/29/07) you have the same amount of daylight as you do on November 15. Your about 3 to 4 weeks from seeing ryegrass and clover really kick in gear.

The only way to get more fall or winter grazing is to plant in early October. We didn't get any rain to germinate until November last fall.

 

[hurleyjd]

Greetings all!
If you're in central or east Texas, I'd like to hear your experiences with either Pennington Durana or East Texas Seed Co's Apache Arrowleaf clovers. It's early so the jury is still out on this year's Arrowleaf but I'd like to know what to expect in terms of growth.

Background:
In fall of '05 we broadcast Durana onto about 15 - 18 ac. The site had been mowed close with a shredder then the seed was broadcast with PTO broadcaster then we used a drag to shake the seed down to the soil surface. As you may know, Fall '05 and Spring '06 were rainless and few sprouts were seen. Basically, it was a bust on the legumes.

Fast forward to early November '06:
Approximately 20 ac were selected for Apache Arrowleaf clover and tetraploid rye seeding (some of this area includes the land seeded last year with the Durana). No soil test was done on the sites since these particular locations tested OK last year and no haying had been done since last test. This year, I close-shredded and lightly disked all the plots. The disking basically provided me with strips of bare earth onto which I then broadcast the seed (this year I used an ATV-type spreader and mounted it on the front of our farm buggy). The plots were measured with a GPS and the recommended seeding rates were used with rye and clover being broadcast separately. No dragging this year since I'd disked and had some bare earth showing.

So far I'd have to say that the results are spotty. I have one 4 ac. plot with consistent clover sprouting and a good show of rye. The other plots have little to no clover and only a little rye coming up.

I'm pretty new to this but, since seeding, we've had over 6" of rain so moisture isn't an issue and it seems like I should be seeing more growth from this years seeding. Am I crazy or is there something I'm not doing right?

Also, is there any chance that last year's Durana could come up too?

I drilled Apache and Marshall Ryegrass. There is not enough of a stand to do any good. I think it might have been the cold dry nights. The crimson that I drilled came on really well. I really wonder about the germ test on the apache, supposed to have been 85% but I am really doubting it now. I do not know how much trust can be put in the seed companys. I did this the first of October. I did not have the drill set real deep. the furrows were for the ryegrass the clover on top of the ground. I did drag a mat harrow behind the drill.

 

[R Leo]

BC, Hurley,
Thanks for the sanity check. Other than clover invading my front yard, I've never had all that much to do with the stuff.

I certainly think there's been enough rain to germinate the seed and, based on what TAMU and the seed companies say about planting, I think I did adequate soil preparation...I probably could have run a drag over it but the Apache warns of getting the seed too far down.

I'll give it some more time before fretting too much.

Thanks again!
R

 

[hurleyjd]

BC, Hurley,
Thanks for the sanity check. Other than clover invading my front yard, I've never had all that much to do with the stuff.

I certainly think there's been enough rain to germinate the seed and, based on what TAMU and the seed companies say about planting, I think I did adequate soil preparation...I probably could have run a drag over it but the Apache warns of getting the seed too far down.

I'll give it some more time before fretting too much.

Thanks again!

R

We may see a lot of Apache next year. Apache which is an Arrowleaf Clover will have a lot of hard seed. Years back the seed companys scarified the seed, that run it through a machine that scarred the seed to make the hard coat weaker.. I do not know if that is a standard practice now or not.

 

[western]

BC, Hurley,
Thanks for the sanity check. Other than clover invading my front yard, I've never had all that much to do with the stuff.

I certainly think there's been enough rain to germinate the seed and, based on what TAMU and the seed companies say about planting, I think I did adequate soil preparation...I probably could have run a drag over it but the Apache warns of getting the seed too far down.

I'll give it some more time before fretting too much.

Thanks again!

R

We may see a lot of Apache next year. Apache which is an Arrowleaf Clover will have a lot of hard seed. Years back the seed companys scarified the seed, that run it through a machine that scarred the seed to make the hard coat weaker.. I do not know if that is a standard practice now or not.

Most seed companies still scarify arrowleaf... but the seed anaylsis tag on the bag should tell you what % hard seed it had. A good test of seed germination is to plant some in a cup full of moist soil and put it on a window seal in the sun. make sure the soil stays moist and in about 2 weeks you should be able to tell what % grew. were any of the clovers coated?

 

[hurleyjd]

BC, Hurley,
Thanks for the sanity check. Other than clover invading my front yard, I've never had all that much to do with the stuff.

I certainly think there's been enough rain to germinate the seed and, based on what TAMU and the seed companies say about planting, I think I did adequate soil preparation...I probably could have run a drag over it but the Apache warns of getting the seed too far down.

I'll give it some more time before fretting too much.

Thanks again!

R

We may see a lot of Apache next year. Apache which is an Arrowleaf Clover will have a lot of hard seed. Years back the seed companys scarified the seed, that run it through a machine that scarred the seed to make the hard coat weaker.. I do not know if that is a standard practice now or not.

Most seed companies still scarify arrowleaf... but the seed anaylsis tag on the bag should tell you what % hard seed it had. A good test of seed germination is to plant some in a cup full of moist soil and put it on a window seal in the sun. make sure the soil stays moist and in about 2 weeks you should be able to tell what % grew. were any of the clovers coated?

Both of the clovers I planted were coated. Apache and Crimson. Also to Leo I think that the Durana is a ladino Clover. You may be out of the geographial area that it will do well. I am In East Texas, our Co_op was really pushing it this time. We apperead to be a little to for west for it to do good. That Is why I did not try it.

 

[KNERSIE]

I know nothing about your conditios, but don't give up on the clover yet. I'll bet in a years time you'll be happy with the result.

on another note... when overseeding a pasture with rhye grass clover mix for winter grazing I've observed that for the rhye grass there was little difference with just broadcasting a closely grazed pasture and let the cattle trample the seeds in vs lightdisking before hand. Clover is another story, the lightly disked pastures had a far better stand than just broadcasting and using the cattle.

The jury is still out on the non-disked pastures as far as clover goes. I'm anxious to see how much clover would germinate this season from last years seeds and also allowing the clover to seed in spring.

 

[R Leo]

were any of the clovers coated?

Do you mean innoculated? If so, yes they were.

 

[BC]

Give us an update in about two weeks after you have had some warm sunshine on it.

 

[R Leo]

Also to Leo I think that the Durana is a ladino Clover. You may be out of the geographial area that it will do well. I am In East Texas, our Co_op was really pushing it this time. We apperead to be a little to for west for it to do good. That Is why I did not try it.

I was curious about that too. I called Pennington and they sent a consultant to visit...Dr Baty. He was retired from teaching at TAMU and now did work for Pennington and for the Extension Service. Accoriding to Baty, we're on the western edge of where Durana will work.

 

[R Leo]

Give us an update in about two weeks after you have had some warm sunshine on it.

That's exactly what it needed. The farm got 6" of rain last week and that, together with the sun and longer days has done the trick; I definitely have arrowleaf coming up in the places I seeded.

 

[Dusty Britches]

Hey Randy -

I'm interested in how your Arrowleaf does. I planted Crimson in early November and due to the dry winter, I lost nearly all of it. I'm glad I didn't pay the price on Arrowleaf. Right now the plants are yellow tipped and curly, but I don't know why.

The 6 inches of rain really helped the Gulf Rye and with the warmer temps and longer days, the spring grasses are coming up.

 

[littleboss]

I am in north Texas. I planted arrowleaf last fall. As usual it come up in Oct but makes no growth until late Feb or early March. Right now my arrowleaf is from 2-4" tall, thick and green..