Got a sale catalog the other day. Went through the heifers that sounded interesting. None of them mentioned anything about OS/ Looked at pedigrees and one has carriers in the parent generation and one is marked by the association as being OSC.
Ethics revisited
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KMacGinley
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Northern Indiana Angus sale catalog came out last week, not much attention paid to potential carriers or maybe I missed it. 
I luv herfrds
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Was at a sale and in the catalog all the sire's or dam's that had a tested genetic fault were marked.
dun":1izp183j said:
Pretty disgusting as far as I'm concerned. But I've seen several Angus sales this year here in OK that were selling genetic defect carriers as "commercial" or unregistered bulls. Some of the breeders identified the carriers, some didn't.
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
Right or wrong, you need to research those pedigrees as never before. I saw several sales that never mentioned that the untested bull in the catalog was a potential carrier. It has been a good exercise, as it has shown me how often "balance" is achieved in EPD's by mating extremes. I think it's deplorable what some breeders do to the uninformed but as one of the semi-informed I can tell you that some of those breeders will not see my business. You can say all you want about "buyer beware" but I'm paying partly for their reputation, not a bull off craigslist.
KMacGinley
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People should really pay attention now as some of the bloodlines that may or may not be associated with fawn calves seem to be appearing more in these sales, they could be moving the rats off the ship.
Oldtimer
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KMacGinley":mk4p4rp9 said:
Yep-- and as more and more cases are reported- and sires involved identified (which the AAA is not making public- possibly because they haven't even recognized the defect exists yet) it sure would be nice if a person had the insight to see what all the board members, their close buddies, and those in the "good old boy" circle are selling (dumping ?)- and what they are breeding to this year..... :???:
Oldtimer
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Aero":14nnt4tq said:
Good question Aero....Its become more and more apparent as more info comes out after the fact that transparency and openness has not been at play with some major breeders, semen companies and bullstuds, or the AAA leadership...Especially when rumors of genetic problems with bulls like Future Direction 5321 have circulated for 10 years before anything was made public...
And the Australians can show where they reported to the US bullstuds and AAA the Fawn Calf problems- and some suspect sires as long ago as 2004-- but to this day we would still know nothing of it if the Australians hadn't made it public thru the internet ... :roll: (Thank You Dr. Denholm)...
Sounds to me like profiteering taking precedence over what should be the priority of a breed organization and breeders--maintaining the purity and genetic quality of the breed.....
Sad thing is this also affects numerous other breeds- including red angus and all the other breeds that used angus to make their continental herds- or to make their breeds black....
I,being a old hereford breeder expierenced the beganing andend of dwarfism in our breed. It was'nt pretty or fun. We as people are supposed to learn from history and hard lessons learned. As a bright eyed new hereford breederMANY years ago I went to a disspersion sale to get my startin the biz . The older owner stood in the auction ring and cried as he was going to be missing his cattle and how good they had been to him. I had only so much borrowed money but would have bought them all as I felt so bad for him. Did buy a semi load[thank god they had'nt invented pots yet] and when I got the cows home another old breeder told me of a way to check pedigrees to see if there was any dwarf problems. Lo and behold,gosh almighty they were so loaded with dwarfism,that it was a wonder they themselves were normal.My life as a purebred breeder lasted about 3 weeks. Took a long time to work those old girls out as commercials and most did'nt last long enough to help pay anything off. At that time most of the "prominite breeders" had loads of these cattle around winning shows,selling herd bulls to otherbreeders, and keeping their mouths shut. The power was in their hands and the AHA made no attempt to expose or admit that there was anything wrong. What a wreck! The long and short of it is no genetic problem should ever be hidden. The quicker these things are reckonized and cleaned up the less damage is done.As i see things now the AAA has a very large problem with every breed attempting to capitilize on black as thier salvation and black at this time is a way to hide a lot of sins. My best freind wa s a tip-top Angus breeder and worried about some of these things years ago, he since has passed away,but darned if he was'nt right. All I can say is the longer these weakness's are ignored the worse they get.I am now still a Hereford breeder and very happy with the situation. We do have a few problems but a good share of the few of us left talk about them and those that are trying to hide these things are pretty well known and are mostly avoided. Ther are still a few left that remember those good old awfull days and will make sure that,at least in this breed it won't happen again. By the way folks I do know that I am a poor speller and am sorry that it happens . E.B.
giftedcowboy
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There happens to be a few breeders out there that have some ethics. I know a few. I have a breeder friend in Montana that will tell you the good bad and the ugly with nothing to hide. Then there are the rest of the lot. most of those don't even know what the word ethical means. I have seen too many fake weights, defects hidden, birth dates lied about, calves that have been bucket fed and left in their contemporary group, parentage guesses, etc. I have a Registered breeder neighbor whom has Angus and Red Angus that does not own a scale, just uses a pencil to weigh them. I have often wondered how some of these people can have any idea which bull was the sire when they have bulls getting in and out of pastures as most don't parentage DNA verify.
Ethics...hmmmm seems that there are not many of them anywhere you look today....
I have one thing to say to you registered breeders.....YOU ONLY HAVE TO LIE ABOUT ONE THING ONE TIME TO MAKE ALL YOUR INFORMATION INTO A LIE. ONE TIME........ With all I have said above...How much real valve do EPD's really show????? It only takes one lie to make all the information BOGUS..... JUST ONE....
Ethics...hmmmm seems that there are not many of them anywhere you look today....
I have one thing to say to you registered breeders.....YOU ONLY HAVE TO LIE ABOUT ONE THING ONE TIME TO MAKE ALL YOUR INFORMATION INTO A LIE. ONE TIME........ With all I have said above...How much real valve do EPD's really show????? It only takes one lie to make all the information BOGUS..... JUST ONE....
I luv herfrds
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Got a friend that is just starting to get into cattle.
She has told me she wants an Angus bull. Where can I send her to look up which line has a genetic fault?
like it has been said some breeders will not tell you.
She wants to keep some heifers back as replacements.
She has told me she wants an Angus bull. Where can I send her to look up which line has a genetic fault?
like it has been said some breeders will not tell you.
She wants to keep some heifers back as replacements.
OP
OP
dun
Well-known member
Get the registration numbers ofr the bulls she may be interested in then go to the angus website, look at th pedigrees, that will tell you if there are any known defectsd in the pedigreeI luv herfrds":12anbgnj said:
Herefords.US
Well-known member
Since the "revelation" with the Creek bull, I've seen several show heifers selling in these sales with IE carriers very close up in their pedigree. And no indication from the breeder whether they are IE free or not.
Before, I would have ASSUMED these breeders would have checked the donor cow mothers to see if they were IE carriers - but I've discovered that I can't make that assumption! It appears that the ostrich effect may have become the accepted practice in some circles.
Be careful out there! Become informed and ask questions!
George
Before, I would have ASSUMED these breeders would have checked the donor cow mothers to see if they were IE carriers - but I've discovered that I can't make that assumption! It appears that the ostrich effect may have become the accepted practice in some circles.
Be careful out there! Become informed and ask questions!
George
I luv herfrds":3b2s77px said:
But I think most breeders will tell you. That would be my first step: ask the breeder. There are lots of breeders who didn't have any affected animals. Second step would be don't buy any bull that isn't registered. It's my understanding that the AAA won't transfer papers on carriers/potential carriers, so some people are selling them as "commercial" bulls with no papers. Bulls tested free will have AMF or NHF (F meaning tested Free of the defect) on their papers.
The AAA has listed all tested, known carriers of Neuropathic Hydrocephalus (NH) here: http://www.angus.org/pub/NH/NHInfo.aspx
And all tested, known carriers of Arthrogryposis Multiplex (AM) here: http://www.angus.org/pub/AM/AMInfo.aspx
(Leave all fields empty, click on "Search" and you'll get everything tested. Note there are different lists for bulls and females)
Fawn Calf is a different situation. Below is a link to the latest update from the AAA. While the AAA won't name bulls that might carry that defect until there's a reliable test, the Australian Angus group has identified two bulls as carriers: Bon View Bando 598 and Rambo 465T of JRS. While Fawn Calf isn't a terminal defect and is not as widespread as AM, she should probably shy away from anything with those bulls in their pedigree.
Fawn Calf Update from AAA: http://www.angus.org/Pub/FC/FC_Notice_032510.pdf
Fawn Calf info from Australia: http://www.angusaustralia.com.au/Geneti ... TopicThree
Jake
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Thought I'd add a poke in this as I was at a sale yesterday that happened to have some calves out of SAV Legacy a NHC. Well the papers were still pending on these calves and nothing was said about the defect or that likely hood that any of these progeny were carriers. Must say I was less than impressed with the honesty and integrity.
Brandonm22
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I am not making any accusations here (rather just pointing out the obvious); but the truly dishonest could quite easily just falsify the bloodwork. If they were careful enough to use 3/4 or 7/8s sibs for the sampling and they sold the cattle into commercial herds, it would be ten or twenty years before anybody realized what happened (with fawn calf it would probably never be proven).
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I just finished typing an All-Breed sale catalog with yearling bulls & heifers in it. I was talking to an Angus breeder that had DNA tested his bull & was confirmed AMF-NHF. I told him he was the only one that had his animal tested, and I asked if anyone could go to AAA web site, put the reg # in & SEE if the animal was SUSPECT - because the ASA (Simm) has a big green dot on the top right corner of the page if they are clean of any suspected pedigree or herd in the pedigree - or RED dot if they are suspect.
Angus breeder wasn't sure so he punched in his reg # & checked. He almost missed it, but he said, in small print on the bottom, it said this animal was not a suspect. So if you know what you're looking for, you should be able to find it.
Are all the breeds that allow "up-grading" doing this? ASA has been requiring testing since the Shorthorn & MaineAnj - Chi cattle started having trouble.
Angus breeder wasn't sure so he punched in his reg # & checked. He almost missed it, but he said, in small print on the bottom, it said this animal was not a suspect. So if you know what you're looking for, you should be able to find it.
Are all the breeds that allow "up-grading" doing this? ASA has been requiring testing since the Shorthorn & MaineAnj - Chi cattle started having trouble.
