Ethics revisited

[dun]

For Red Angus it has a list of all confirmed carriers, if an animal has been tested it will say whatever F or whatever C depending on the status. That's where looking at the pedigree comes in to know if there are carriers in the backgorund

 

[Northern Rancher]

The argument about the buyers should have to ask is pretty weak. That would be like some guy giving your daughter aids and shrugging it off as she never asked about it. What goes around comes around in the cattle business and the outfits that are being less than upfront about things will suffer eventually. I've seen some pretty formidable purebred fortresses crumble in my day. Accountability and honesty are the cornerstones of every business except of course government.

 

[Frankie]

The argument about the buyers should have to ask is pretty weak. That would be like some guy giving your daughter aids and shrugging it off as she never asked about it. What goes around comes around in the cattle business and the outfits that are being less than upfront about things will suffer eventually. I've seen some pretty formidable purebred fortresses crumble in my day. Accountability and honesty are the cornerstones of every business except of course government.

If you know pedigrees, you don't have to ask. But for a newbee, I think the first thing to do is ASK THE BREEDER. Not all cattle are potential carriers of any known defect. I don't think the commercial cattleman should necessairy be expected to keep up on pedigrees and defects. But he's in the cattle business then it's his responsibility to know what he's buying. When in doubt, he should ask.

 

[Northern Rancher]

As a breeder you should be informing your customers-would you put up with that B.S from an automobile company- "Our cars are blowing up but if you haven't seen the news we'll still sell you one."

 

[Frankie]

As a breeder you should be informing your customers-would you put up with that B.S from an automobile company- "Our cars are blowing up but if you haven't seen the news we'll still sell you one."

Yes, in a perfect world a breeder would be informing his customers. But, as we've seen from this thread and recent other threads, not all Hereford breeders are talking about IE and not all Angus breeders are talking about the Angus defects. So what's a buyer to do? I say he should, first of all, ASK the breeder if the bulls have been tested for genetic defects. You want to pretend ALL breeders are up front with their customers and diss my recommendation, go ahead. As it happens, we were lucky and didn't use any bulls known to carry AM or NH. We had bought a heifer that needed to be tested and she was negative, thank goodness. We'll likely selling some open heifers this fall and their pen sign will say, loud and clear "These heifers are pedigree free or tested free of known genetic defects." But to suggest every breeder will do that is not likely, IMO. In fact, I know some people raising Angus that didn't even know about AM until I told them late last year. Are they crooks for not telling people who buy their cattle? No. If someone had been looking at their cattle and ASKED, they would probably have logged onto the Angus site and learned from there.

 

[bse]

Got a sale catalog the other day it said in small print if you were concerned about AM/NH you could go to angus website and look them up so i did every reg # in the catalog 35% were potential carriers thats not saying they were carriers but the potential was there. The guy could have punched one button and got all that info. So if you have a catalog and are interested in a lot you had better research it. There are plenty of legit sellers out there and usually have on there catalog all cattle AM/NH free

 

[Northern Rancher]

It's pretty easy do business with peoiple who are upfront and accountable!!!

 

[Frankie]

It's pretty easy do business with peoiple who are upfront and accountable!!!

Oh? OK, I come to your sale. I pick up a catalog and start walking through the bull pens. There's not a single word in the catalog, one way or another, about the latest genetic defect affecting your breed. Am I to ASSUME that you never used a bull that could pass on that defect? Or am I to assume you've tested everything at risk? Or am I to ASSUME that you don't even know about that genetic defect? You can make assumptions; I'll ask the breeder up front.And I'd encourage everyone to do the same.

 

[KMacGinley]

You should ask, but be prepared to be lied to. The guy not putting out information if his cattle may be effected is trying to pull a fast one, so I would take what he says with a big grain of salt. I would do some checking on my own.

 

[VanC]

You should ask, but be prepared to be lied to. The guy not putting out information if his cattle may be effected is trying to pull a fast one, so I would take what he says with a big grain of salt. I would do some checking on my own.

I agree. Asking won't do a lick of good if the breeder is dishonest to begin with, or simply doesn't know as much as they should about their cattle. I find it troubling that some breeders know nothing about the genetic defects that affect their breed, and I find it even more troubling that there are those that don't think twice about selling problem cattle to others. I've no doubt that they are few and far between, but they're out there, just as they are in any business. Whether it's cattle or anything else it's best to find out as much as you can about the seller and what they're selling.

 

[Herefords.US]

I pulled this out of Star Lake's catalog for their May sale. I believe this is the first time this particular statement has been in their catalog. Several of Creek's maternal sibs are selling and they have been tested IE free. It'll be interesting to see how they sell.

Genetic Defects: Star Lake has tested any animals that we felt were potential
carriers of genetic defects before offering them for sale. Star Lake has also tested
donor dams and herd sires. We will not sell embryos out of known carrier dams
or sires. Any known carriers will be eliminated from the sale. Animals tested
free of defects are indicated by these codes in the pedigrees: HYF –
Hypotrichosis Free; DLF – Dilutor Free; IEF – Idiopathic Epilepsy Free. Any
known carriers have the following codes: HYC – Hypotrichosis Carrier; DLC –
Dilutor Carrier; IEC – Idiopathic Epilepsy Carrier.

Interesting that they decided to go ahead and test their donor dams and herd sires, regardless of pedigree.

George

 

[redcowsrule33]

Interesting that they decided to go ahead and test their donor dams and herd sires, regardless of pedigree.

With that kind of investment and if you are truly interested in eliminating the defect from the gene pool, better to be safe than sorry. As for the database searches, it can only see known carriers in the pedigree. There are enough old bulls that can't be tested that are sires of carriers that still lurk in pedigrees, and you have to physically look for them. A lot of breeders are advertising they are testing only if there is a carrier 2 generations or less back in the pedigree. What bunk. Some OS positive animals have the first known carrier 8-11 generations back. Many will guarantee they will be free, but once I buy and test myself and it's positive, they can't easily replace like with like and I don't have the bull I wanted. Rather buy a tested animal, one less unknown in the equation. If its money they're worried about, I for one am willing to pay $50 more for a tested animal. JMHO.