Eric Garner Case

[Hook]

We have a real reading comprehension problem
It wasn't just a onetime offense. His criminal record dates back 30 years
He was a big guy and resisted arrest. It requires force to subdue a guy that size and a past experience may have factored into the amount of force
His demise was due to his health issues which was due to his lifestyle choices

I'll say it again

If he hadn't been breaking the law or cooperated we wouldn't be having this discussion
No one should be held responsible for his death except himself

He chose to break the law and resist arrest
Those two things along with his poor eating choices us what killed him

The officer did nothing other than his job

When did the arrest process become cumulative? I don't think the officer intended to kill him, but his actions were excessive. Being that he is human, and the guy was 3 times his size, and it was in the performance of his job, I can see the gj not indicting him. Right or wrong, it's the way the system works. His family and their supporters won't be the first people let down by the system. And they won't be the last

 

[greybeard]

In my state, the past record has never been cumulative.
Well I did have 2 library fines when I was 13 , but the old bag at the desk didn't choke me over it.....

 

[Bestoutwest]

Reckon having been arrested 31 times before would have any thing to do with how he was handled??

I'm sure the officers called in and asked in advance how many times he had been arrested--before they applied the hold.
May I ask?
What's the magic cutoff #? 1--2-20= if he had only been arrested 3 times would he have been handled differently? 29? 4? 0?
Not rhetorical questions--I'd like an answer.

My guess is that if he had held it to 30 times he would still be alive. Obey The Law and they probably won't have any trouble.

Larry

It's my understanding that there was no concrete evidence that he was actually breaking the law. I agree that if you don't break the law you won't have any trouble, but if I understand your stance on this; it's OK that he's dead b/c he's a criminal. Maybe he should have been cuffed, but when he was having a difficulty breathing he should have been treated. He wasn't a violent criminal that attacked a police officer or anyone else. He was allegedly selling cigerettes.

 

[Bestoutwest]

An obese career criminal dies and everyone jumps on the bandwagon
All while innocent people are murdered everyday by the same type criminal and no one even cares

Jumping on the bandwagon I believe is the term ?

Yeah, I've heard about something like that recently. In Chicago some guy beat another guy to death with an untaxed cigerette. Happens all the time, I tell ya. You just can't keep people from using those untaxed cigerettes as weapons. Damn thugs.

 

[slick4591]

GB, I don't have a clue what they were asking. Could have been one of those "here's the case you decide" deals. Normally the prosecutor would ask for the highest they thought they could prove and throw a bunch of lesser offenses behind that just in case.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

So you folks think the cop murdered the ole boy in cold blood??

 

[Sunfish]

So you folks think the cop murdered the ole boy in cold blood??

Whew !
I thought there for a minute I was wrong about this deal

 

[Jogeephus]

So you folks think the cop murdered the ole boy in cold blood??

If the cop did that the I want them to teach me how to make someone have a heart attack and die an hour after I touch them. Pretty cool business. Maybe had he not resisted arrest he would not have stressed his heart and maybe he wouldn't have had a heart attack.

 

[MO_cows]

No, I don't think it was murder because there was not intent. But I do think the police screwed up in two ways. One, using the banned choke hold. Two, not doing anything after he stopped breathing. The grand jury didn't vote to indict on any criminal charges, but what is the department going to do in the way of punishment/discipline?

The thing has gotten clouded up by the racists, and by all the hoopla from the Brown case. (Where the grand jury got it right, at least I think so.) Race had nuthin to do with it. Just a pizz poor performance by that group of cops and someone died because of it.

Just because you have a warrant for your arrest doesn't mean the police are right and you are wrong, either. I know someone who was mistakenly arrested and almost got extradited to another state to face child sex abuse charges. An ironclad alibi and a good (and expensive!) lawyer got him out of jail after a WEEK behind bars and he was totally innocent. So just because you have kept your nose clean doesn't mean you aren't going to have an encounter with the police, and that's why we need to keep them on a leash and not let them run amuck.

 

[larryshoat]

My guess is that if he had held it to 30 times he would still be alive. Obey The Law and they probably won't have any trouble.

Larry

It's my understanding that there was no concrete evidence that he was actually breaking the law. I agree that if you don't break the law you won't have any trouble, but if I understand your stance on this; it's OK that he's dead b/c he's a criminal. Maybe he should have been cuffed, but when he was having a difficulty breathing he should have been treated. He wasn't a violent criminal that attacked a police officer or anyone else. He was allegedly selling cigerettes.

Well in both the Garner and Brown cases wouldn't that have solved the problem?

No it's my stance that he is dead because over and over again he made bad choices. 31 times he got by with it, on #32 he didn't. The same with Brown, he chose the life of a criminal, he paid the price .

If you're a parent teach your kids to obey the law and respect the police, I don't think that was the case with either of these guys and they paid the price for it.

Larry

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Does anyone know the race and gender of the police officer in charge at the scene who issued the order to subdue the suspect?

 

[3waycross]

Does anyone know the race and gender of the police officer in charge at the scene who issued the order to subdue the suspect?

not sure but i do know that the guy who applied the choke hold has an Italian surname and has had two racially related beefs before.

apparently he is not real mellanzane friendly.

 

[houstoncutter]

Sure a lot of talk for something so simple.......you are under arrest put your hands behind your back!!!! Simple commands that if followed both of these folks would be alive. They chose not to and suffered the outcome of their choice

Only thing I'm curious about , is they don't have tasers in the big city. Down here in Texas they would have lit him up like a Christmas tree!

 

[greybeard]

No Sunfish, you aren't alone. There are lots of people just like you--or close to it--that don't mind if a constitutional right is abridged, as long as it's always someone else's right's been trampled on.

 

[Sunfish]

No Sunfish, you aren't alone. There are lots of people just like you--or close to it--that don't mind if a constitutional right is abridged, as long as it's always someone else's right's been trampled on.

I don't see where his rights were violated
No where does the constitution say you have the right to break the law or to evade arrest

Miranda rights state
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to an attorney.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

Basically you are arrested and charged with a crime
If the judge feels you aren't a flight risk bail is set and you get your day in court
After 31 priors he had to be familiar with the routine

At no point was his constitutional rights violated or withheld
They attempted arrest him and he resisted
Force was used to subdue him and due to him being overweight and in poor health he died
It was not the fault of the police that he was unable to withstand the abuse he brought on himself for resisting arrest or that he was unhealthy due to his lifestyle

 

[boondocks]

No Sunfish, you aren't alone. There are lots of people just like you--or close to it--that don't mind if a constitutional right is abridged, as long as it's always someone else's right's been trampled on.

I don't see where his rights were violated
No where does the constitution say you have the right to break the law or to evade arrest

Miranda rights state
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to an attorney.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

Basically you are arrested and charged with a crime
If the judge feels you aren't a flight risk bail is set and you get your day in court
After 31 priors he had to be familiar with the routine

At no point was his constitutional rights violated or withheld
They attempted arrest him and he resisted
Force was used to subdue him and due to him being overweight and in poor health he died
It was not the fault of the police that he was unable to withstand the abuse he brought on himself for resisting arrest or that he was unhealthy due to his lifestyle

Mo Cows has told you several times to watch the video. Please tell me that your opinions have been formed without watching the actual real-time video of what happened.

I have not weighed in on the failure to indict in Ferguson because I wasn't there and haven't been privy to the evidence.
But this one? I truly don't know how ANYONE could view that video and not be appalled. The casual taking of a innocent man's life for allegedly selling a few loosies? ("Innocent" because he WAS at the time. Remember that whole "until proven guilty" thing?)

I'm all for law and order, but there IS a line, and it looks like to me we have far too many cops who not only cross it but live on the other side of it. To stand around and do NOTHING for 6 minutes while the man you've choked lies there unconscious? UNCONSCIONABLE in a civilized society.

 

[boondocks]

I don't see where his rights were violated

"An autopsy by the city's medical examiner found that Mr. Garner's death was a homicide resulting from the chokehold — a maneuver banned by the Police Department in 1993 — and the compression of his chest by police officers."

Might I suggest new glasses, if you can't "see" any rights violated here?
Maybe it's just me, but homicide kinda seems like the ultimate violation of someone's rights. Go figure.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I have not weighed in on the failure to indict in Ferguson because I wasn't there and haven't been privy to the evidence.

I don't think that is really a fair statement. You've been just as privy, if not more to information about Michael Brown as this guy, if you've attempted at all to search for it. If you have an established view, it may not coincide with it as well. ;-)


I've seen enough of both incidents to know that they aren't in the same ballpark. Of course, one was shot and one was subdued. The one shot appears to be very justified. The other, I have plenty of questions on. Just like the following situation:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... -cleveland Video

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... dged-unfit Background on the officer. Reading his review, very concerning that he was given a job, a badge and a government issued gun.

 

[boondocks]

CF, I think reasonable minds can perhaps differ as to what initially went down in Ferguson, at least based on the info I've read. The eyewitnesses contradicted each other six ways to Sunday. I guess that without video, I leave a little more room to give the Ferguson cop the benefit of the doubt, that he feared for his life. I have a good friend who's a cop and I do recognize how hard it is to make a split second decision when lives hang in the balance.

In the Garner case, we can see quite clearly on the video that the man is not acting particularly aggressive, and is quickly surrounded and pounced on by multiple cops. If, even after he passed out, they were still fearful for their lives, they are seriously unfit to serve. We seem to have a new (?) generation of cops that are either ill suited, or poorly trained, for the very serious jobs they hold...

 

[highgrit]

What were the officers supposed to do? They were trying to arrest him, and he's telling them to keep their hands off of him. I guess the cops should of just let him walk off, screw the cops. Then one he's on the ground passed out, what are the cops supposed to do then? I guess jump down on the ground and give him mouth to mouth CPR. If I saw some one having troubles breathing I'm not doing CPR on someone I don't know. AIDS and the EBOLA viruses are still out there, and your on your own. If the big feller would of listened to the first officer, and put his hands behind his back like he was asked to he would of been alive today.