Eric Garner Case
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TexasBred
Well-known member
Hopefully neither will those particular policemen.highgrit":1sdimqck said:
I luv herfrds
Well-known member
Must admit that it is weird he was yelling he couldn't breathe, well if he could keep yelling that then he could breathe. I got hit in the middle of my throat by accident years ago, I couldn't breathe nor talk! Just recently I accidently swallowed wrong and started chocking, couldn't breathe nor talk.
So listening to the protesters yelling their "I can't breathe." just has me shaking my head with their ignorance.
So listening to the protesters yelling their "I can't breathe." just has me shaking my head with their ignorance.
inyati13
Well-known member
highgrit":bog5uxgf said:
It is well known you are not a POS. People have their own values and standards. I don't like to be attacked for mine and I don't think you should be attacked for yours. Providing first responder medical assistance is free choice. As a US civil servant, we were required to take annual training in CPR and first responder protocols. I carry a plastic CPR mask to protect me from vomit, blood, urine, feces or other body fluids. At the beginning of those courses, it is made very clear that you are responsible for your own safety in providing CPR and medical assistance. The instructors I have had are vigilant to make sure that your safety comes first.
In addition, and this has not been noted above. Providing CPR and medical assistance subjects you to the potential for litigation should the victim's family decide that you contributed to the death or further injury of the victim.
I personally, would feel privileged to provide life saving assistance. But that is a free choice I make and I be damed if I want someone else telling me how I should feel about it.
PS: I think GB sometimes goes a tad far as the forum morality cop but I will say this, of all the users I read on this forum, his standards and values are among those most admired by me.
Hook
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I know if I need first aid, I don't want someone trying to help me without gloves on. Don't want to catch anything they might have that's communicable
inyati13
Well-known member
Hook":jtjwchar said:
I carry a small pack of non-latex gloves with my mask. Both in the glove compartment. My bigger concern would be someone not doing anything and watching me die.
BTW: Does anyone else have choke back a laugh when they hear "heimlich maneuver"?
inyati13
Well-known member
The CPR and First Responder Training that our contractors put on for us also including a caution: If the person you are about to aid is conscious, you are required to ask their permission before you administer aid. If the person is not conscious, you can assume that permission is granted on the basis that without aid they at at risk of dying.
HOSS
Well-known member
I have some mixed feelings on this case. Was the use of force excessive? In my opinion...yes...in relation to the alleged crime. 3 or 4 police officers to handle one case of loosie selling is ridiculous. They have better things to worry about and should have went on their way. That being said I do not know if the choke hold has been discussed. First, the choke hold is against NYPD policy but not illegal as in a state law per say. Meaning he could face disciplinary action by the NYPD but not necessarily state criminal charges. Otherwise they would be arresting every MMA fighter after they stepped out of the ring. Secondly, the choke hold on the carotid artery wasn't applied for the 16 seconds normally required to make someone pass out. He did not die of asphyxiation from being choked or a crushed larynx. Someone that cannot breath cannot talk. He was saying over and over that he cannot breath so obviously he could talk. Your voice box cannot work without air flowing across the vocal cords. Ever been thrown from a horse or hit in football and had the wind knocked out of you? You cannot talk at all. You just sit there and work your jaw up and down and nothing comes out. The obesity, heart issues etc. is what killed him brought on by the struggle. Ever watch the show COPS? 9 out of 10 perps on the show claim that the cops are either breaking their arms or that they can breath. Cops hear it all the time. It is like the little boy that cried wolf.......they see so many phonies that they believe none. As far as the racial aspect this was not an issue. The sergeant in charge on the scene was a black female officer. She did not stop the takedown from happening or the choke hold from taking place.
This whole thing is a mess.
This whole thing is a mess.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
HOSS":2eonfx52 said:
Hoss, I agree with everything you said except I disagree with you about the use of excessive force. No one has the right to resist arrest so it was Garner who escalated the issue. I agree its a petty crime and could have been handled as such but Garner did not allow it. Instead backup had to be called and it ended badly for him.
Now lets stop and consider something. Why did he escalate matters the way he did when he'd been arrested for this before and he knew the routine? Am I the only one who wonders why Garner's buddy and partner in crime was the one who filmed the whole thing? Where is the rest of the footage filmed prior to the arrival of backup? How long did he resist arrest and escalate things? All that is left out? Was this intentionally? Were the two working together trying to breed more racial disturbance or were they fishing for a check? Was this whole thing staged?
A year or so ago I had an altercation with a young cop who thought he could run over me. I stood my ground and gave him a tongue lashing he didn't expect. I could tell he was about to wet his pants but I wasn't threatening him only speaking the truth and citing the law and his failure to do his job. Though I had the upper hand and was winning the argument I saw him put his hand on his taser at which time I backed down and did the "yes sir no sir" routine. I'm not stupid and I knew when he grabbed his taser I was going to lose this battle so I conceded and took the bullshyt ticket and left only to fight my battle elsewhere. In short, I didn't pay the ticket and he is no longer an officer here - not just because of me but because of more people like me who reported him. Sure my rights were violated but this just because we live in a stupid world with stupid people and its our choice whether we want to be stupid or not.
greybeard
Well-known member
Lots of questions and inferred events.Jogeephus":1pafjs0x said:
Since you asked them of yourself first, I suspect you have something else to add?
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
I say we need more compassion for crooks..I'll never look at marshal Dillion the same again..
I can't verify this but my uncle who owned a bar in LA told me that back in the day Arness would make the rounds looking for someone to fight.
Apparently he didn't just play a tuff guy on TV. I doubt that he would have let that boy in Missouri bull rush him like that.
Apparently he didn't just play a tuff guy on TV. I doubt that he would have let that boy in Missouri bull rush him like that.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
greybeard":3c65dnjr said:
Don't have much to add other than its easy for people to point their fingers at the police after Garner's death because everyone has the luxury of hindsight. But put yourself in the cops shoes. Better yet, just watch Cops or Cops Reloaded and see if what they are doing on these shows is any different than what they did to Garner. They took him down.
Now what bothers me is when the FBI shoots a boy with a rifle when he is going to feed his dog. Or when the Dept of Ag sends a SWAT team onto private property to "bust" a guy for selling raw milk. Or when our police begin to look like Nazi Storm Troopers rather than public servants.
Maybe I'm heartless but when I was a boy my mother told me not to mess with a hornets nest else I'd get stung. Wanting to show how smart I was I took a brick and smashed the hive and got the shyt stung out of me. This was stupid of me and I could have died. Same with Garner but he died being stupid. All he had to do was allow them to arrest him and fight his fight in court.
This is what bothers me and it should you too.
http://imgur.com/gallery/fpYzl
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... /19984391/ this man was treated unfairly face down, hand cuffed ...
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Bet his momma is gonna say he was a good boy and it wasn't his fault.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
Sure she will, she had to raise him by her self. He could do no wrong in her eyes..
larryshoat
Well-known member
ALACOWMAN":11g1np3v said:
Heck he shoots and kills one in every show.
Larry
inyati13
Well-known member
A Staten Island grand jury cleared an NYPD cop in the chokehold death of Eric Garner during his caught-on-video arrest for peddling loose cigarettes, the Staten Island district attorney confirmed Wednesday.
The panel voted a "no-bill" and dismissed all potential charges against Officer Daniel Pantaleo.
Unless you attended the proceeding and can witness that there was a miscarriage of justice, I don't know on what grounds one can comment that the cop is guilty that trumps the findings of the jury. Unless you heard the evidence presented inside that jury, the comments here are just that, commentary of limited substance.
The video seems to justify some of the daming comments provided above. But there are nuances to law that I am sure were presented that provided a legitimate basis for a billing of no charges. Charges often carry the burden of labeling acts as "willful", "deliberate", "knowing", etc. Those are difficult thresholds to meet. For example, a coal mine operator pushes a rock over the side of a mountain and it rolls through a home and kills a person in the home. To achieve the maximum punishment the law allows, the burden of proof is to show that the act was "knowingly and willfully" conducted. Imagine then getting on the stand as the primary witness for the prosecution and proving what is in a human being's head when they commit an act. It almost requires "Divine Powers".
Until there is evidence that the Jury was wrong, I am going to be content to accept that the Jury heard evidence that suggests that the officer was in a frame of mind that justified his actions and that his actions were not "willful or deliberate" for the purpose of doing permanent harm. Regardless of one's observations, the most substantive metric to measure whether the officer's actions were justified is the finding of the Jury.
The panel voted a "no-bill" and dismissed all potential charges against Officer Daniel Pantaleo.
Unless you attended the proceeding and can witness that there was a miscarriage of justice, I don't know on what grounds one can comment that the cop is guilty that trumps the findings of the jury. Unless you heard the evidence presented inside that jury, the comments here are just that, commentary of limited substance.
The video seems to justify some of the daming comments provided above. But there are nuances to law that I am sure were presented that provided a legitimate basis for a billing of no charges. Charges often carry the burden of labeling acts as "willful", "deliberate", "knowing", etc. Those are difficult thresholds to meet. For example, a coal mine operator pushes a rock over the side of a mountain and it rolls through a home and kills a person in the home. To achieve the maximum punishment the law allows, the burden of proof is to show that the act was "knowingly and willfully" conducted. Imagine then getting on the stand as the primary witness for the prosecution and proving what is in a human being's head when they commit an act. It almost requires "Divine Powers".
Until there is evidence that the Jury was wrong, I am going to be content to accept that the Jury heard evidence that suggests that the officer was in a frame of mind that justified his actions and that his actions were not "willful or deliberate" for the purpose of doing permanent harm. Regardless of one's observations, the most substantive metric to measure whether the officer's actions were justified is the finding of the Jury.
gimpyrancher
Well-known member
Such a result for possibly selling one cigarette out of a pack? Do they use an automatic rifle if someone spits on the sidewalk or doesn't feed the parking meter in NY?
When did the punishment stop fitting the crime? 5 "professional" officers and not one of them was able to see that the guy was in life threatening distress? All of them played a part in that unwarranted death.
When did the punishment stop fitting the crime? 5 "professional" officers and not one of them was able to see that the guy was in life threatening distress? All of them played a part in that unwarranted death.
