Energy sourch cheaper than $7 corn?

[Amo]

I've got some "assisted living" or "polident" cows.

They have the best hay I got. Was feeding them modified DDG. Not really wanting to buy another load of that, need to keep it for replacement heiffers. Also tried a distellers based tub. 20% protein Sweet Pro.

They are fairly thin. Calves now at side. Had them sorted off since mid Jan. I could buy the tub cheaper than my DDG delivered. Went through 3 tubs and stuff weren't gaing much. Went to feeding them DDG. Started running short on that, so went back to tubs. I've used DDG in past years to put weight on in the winter. Modified is 45%. So say if its 50% feeding 4# of DDG is about like feeding 2# of a 32% cake (cube). Did that from first of the year to 20 of Feb or so. Worked slick. Ball parked (scoop shovel over the fence) to these cows. Maybe I didn't give them enough per head per day...IDK. They still didn't seam to flesh up. Decided to go back to the tub. They can crap into the next county. I think they are getting plenty of protein. Thinking I need some energy. Thing is I really don't want to buy $7 corn. Is there a good energy source product other than corn? Ive talked to all my local feed people. They say no. Doubt you guys know of anything either. Just thought Id ask.

Hopefully grass is about 30 days away. Hoping they will make it with out losing too much more. Planning on splitting say mid-August. I have left out the tubs and dropped hay quality, hoping to "firm" em up. Weather it will help them gain or not IDK. Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[msscamp]

Is there a good energy source product other than corn?

Thanks

Don't know if this will help or not, but according to what I've been reading earlier tonight barley is very close to corn in terms of energy.

 

[TexasBred]

What "else" is on the menu besides the tubs?

 

[Amo]

Well, I could go back to DDG. Thats up another $50 a ton over what I figured at when I bought the tubs. Kinda want to save DDG for replacement heiffers.

One neighbor does have silage. My odds would be better in Vegas, than talking to him about buying some of that. Or corn. I can get that, just don't want to very bad. Thought about some dang good alfalfa. Buddy of mine went to that instead of DDG pellet they were caking with. He doesn't think it has the energy like DDG. I switched to poorer quality hay yesterday. Hoping that they will maybe crave the tub more. If its DDG based (I have no idea how much DDG is in it) they should be able to get some energy out of that. Provided I can get them to eat enough. Have a guy thats sells Alcomp. Thought about it a little. Haven't priced it either. I only have 8 head in the pen. Liquid and my feed wagon don't work to well for TMR. Don't have a lick wheel tank either. How much stuff do I wan't to feed for 8 pair? Guess I could use product X till I split them.

Guess thats what I was asking was if there were any other options.

 

[Amo]

Guess the local ethonal plant (30 miles) has a liquid product. 68% water. On DM basis its 19.4% CP and 14.7% Fat. $26 ton FOB.

Free choice kinda wonder if they would drink it like Kool Aide. Pluse sulfer is .89 on DM. Im not smart enough to know if they over consume will it be a disaster or not. Starch is 8.17.

Where would you buy a lick wheel tank other than a feed dealer? Im sure they would just love to sell a tank and not the feed. I don't they mark up the tank. Use it as a way to lock in your business.

 

[Amo]

Double post.

 

[dun]

You might look into Mix30

 

[Amo]

Tried Mix 30 once. Good stuff. Manufacture prices it accordingly. Neighbor getting it semi load at a time. I would buy 500 gal at a time off them when I needed some. They got one load of Mix 30 one year. Soposed better bread back due to fat, plus would stiffin up when its cold. Other wise they were using corn steep. By product from a wet mill ethonal plant. It was always a little cheaper than Mix 30. They would get their Mix 30 semi load lot FOB @ plant. Priced steep yesterday. It was $75 FOB. I can get Mix 30 locally. Might try that if I don't think this $26 a ton stuff won't cut the mustard. Im guessing it would be $120-150 a ton, just going off of the price of corn steep. Corn might be cheaper?

Texas Bread...grass is about a month away. I'm located in noth central nebraska. About 125 miles north of Grand Island or 70 miles south of the South Dakota line. Looked at the tubs today. They are 3.5% fat. I talked to 4 different feed stores. They all stated I needed more energy. None of them really had a magic pill. Just stated corn, or silage. If weigh ups stay where they are at, $7 corn wouldn't kill me. Notice the word "if". Going to try and see if I cant scratch up a lick wheel tub. Or could soak the bales with the liquid as well. I really don't want to buy a bunch of equipment for 8 kill cows. With that few of head, I think I can regulate the consumption by limitting how much liquid I put in the lick wheel deal. Plus if it works I could put weight on during summer. Then again on fresh green grass, it might be overkill? Depending on what you could buy product X for.

Thanks.

 

[Amo]

Priced Mix 30 today. $220 a ton. Wouldn't need a lot of it for 10 pair. If I went this route Id proably use it on grass to put weight on the cows. If the ethonal stuff is what I think it is, I cant fill the tank and leave for a week. Pretty sure they will over eat. If I could positivly know I Mix 30 would work like its sopsoed to Id go that route. Ive heard horror stories about it though.

I know some people on here use it. Whats been your luck?

 

[TexasBred]

If they're "kill cows" as you described them I'd be loading them on a trailer and getting them to a sale somewhere asap. No need spending money on them when you can make money immediately by getting rid of them.

 

[Amo]

Thought about that. Spliting up the pairs. Guess Im a tick greedy on this. They say mid summer weigh ups should be super high. I kinda agree, especially if fuel stays high and the economy sucks. We will be eating tons and tons of burger. So I was thinking about putting weight on them as well as raising a calf til mid summer.

Ya I know it will bite me in the butt more than likely. Just like going to Vegas!

 

[TexasBred]

Thought about that. Spliting up the pairs. Guess Im a tick greedy on this. They say mid summer weigh ups should be super high. I kinda agree, especially if fuel stays high and the economy sucks. We will be eating tons and tons of burger. So I was thinking about putting weight on them as well as raising a calf til mid summer.

Ya I know it will bite me in the butt more than likely. Just like going to Vegas!

Hopefully you can put the weight on them but right now it's not happening. Only way to change that is to spend money and "hope". Best of luck to you.

 

[dimestorecowboy]

Ive seen poor cows put on liquid feed and crap them selves to death.they just stand there. and eat 24 7 until it runs out the other end . Most of the time poor cows with calves won't gain weight unless on high protein and high energy diets . high protein will make them shiver more . might be better to feed high energy like corn or 20 % breeders cubes . but I wouldn't expect butter ball fat cows even on grass if they have a calf at there side .

 

[TexasBred]

Ive seen poor cows put on liquid feed and crap them selves to death.they just stand there. and eat 24 7 until it runs out the other end . Most of the time poor cows with calves won't gain weight unless on high protein and high energy diets . high protein will make them shiver more . might be better to feed high energy like corn or 20 % breeders cubes . but I wouldn't expect butter ball fat cows even on grass if they have a calf at there side .

Liquid feed is too much protein yet you recommend 20% breeder cubes??????? These cattle won't gain much weight on any plan as long as they're nursing calves. An increase in energy will do as much as anything. A good 11-12% feed with a lot of corn along with a good source of high quality roughage should work much better. You have to keep the feed in her system long enough for her to utilize it.

 

[JustSimmental]

You know you can pull your calves off early to preserve your broodcows. If you are just calving and have brought you cows into calving season in poor condition an early weaning might be your best bet.

JS

 

[dimestorecowboy]

Tb u can limit feed cubes u can't limit feed liquid in a lick tank .4 pounds a day of 20 % cubes isn't to much protein . Especially with poor hay ...

 

[dimestorecowboy]

Also cubes are made from corn and cotton seed meal. Most liquid feed gets its protein from urea ..also cubes are 8 dollars a bag .12 percent pellets are 8 dollars a bag . U can feed 4 pounds of cubes or 7 pounds of 12 percent . Both bags weigh 50,pounds . It's cheaper to feed the cubes .

 

[TexasBred]

Tb u can limit feed cubes u can't limit feed liquid in a lick tank .4 pounds a day of 20 % cubes isn't to much protein . Especially with poor hay ...

Good liquid feed is self limiting with limiters included in the formulation and/or with the Ph. .4 lbs. of cubes certainly is not excessive but hardly enough to even both with. Cubes are mostly protein and grain by-products and contain very little corn even if they're low fiber and are not energy dense enough to do thatmuch good. I'd still prefer a lower protein feed with better energy. Remember these are "polident cattle". ;-) We need some fiber and not necessarily high quality fiber.

 

[dimestorecowboy]

In my experience nothing will limit a starving cow from eating . The limiters are usually high amounts of urea or salt . the urea will kill the enzymes in the rumen if to much is eaten . what I said before about them over consuming and scouring is from experience . I've tried the "good " as well as bad liquid . Cows need to be in good shape before u start them on it .

 

[novaman]

In my experience nothing will limit a starving cow from eating . The limiters are usually high amounts of urea or salt . the urea will kill the enzymes in the rumen if to much is eaten . what I said before about them over consuming and scouring is from experience . I've tried the "good " as well as bad liquid . Cows need to be in good shape before u start them on it .

The liquid feeds I have used use phosphoric acid as the limiter. It has a very bitter taste and discourages over consumption.