East Texas Pine to Pasture Conversion

[Pineland]

There is a little Bermuda, Bahia, along with a host of native grasses that have popped up.

CB I sent the photo off to the extension agent to see if he has any ideas. Our wildlife biologist is also checking. This photo does not do the plant justice. It is structured more like Bermuda grass than young cane. I have some young cane that has popped up in different areas and it has a different plant structure. Thanks.

 

[Caustic Burno]

There is a little Bermuda, Bahia, along with a host of native grasses that have popped up.

CB I sent the photo off to the extension agent to see if he has any ideas. Our wildlife biologist is also checking. This photo does not do the plant justice. It is structure more like Bermuda grass more so than young cane. I have some young cane that has popped up in different areas and it has a different plant structure. Thanks.

Let me know what that is or get us a better picture. ;-)

 

[Southeastksguy]

There is a little Bermuda, Bahia, along with a host of native grasses that have popped up.

CB I sent the photo off to the extension agent to see if he has any ideas. Our wildlife biologist is also checking. This photo does not do the plant justice. It is structure more like Bermuda grass more so than young cane. I have some young cane that has popped up in different areas and it has a different plant structure. Thanks.

Let me know what that is or get us a better picture. ;-)

I believe it's scribner panicum. Looks like bermuda- with shorter runners and thicker leaves. Here is a link with pick and info.

http://www.bamertseed.com/grass-Scribner-Panicum.php

Also, ive been clearing and burning cedars. Ive got some clover going but I need to estblish some grass and increase organic matter. Any suggestions for southeast Kansas?

 

[Pineland]

That looks like it. Thank you.

 

[greybeard]

Summer update

No lime put out yet. This is after a single pass of Remedy taking out the vast majority of sweetgum and tallow trees.

Pineland:
Which Remedy are you using?
Remedy amine base or Remedy Ultra ester based?
I'm a little further south and maybe east from you--in San Jacinto county, and am doing the same thing you are. Pine forest gone, and almost all the hardwood--nothing left except a few pines, oaks and gum trees along the fencerows and especially around the ponds. My property is bordered on one side by the Sam Houston Natl Forest and on the other by East San Jacinto River, so I do flood occassionally and have been fighting Tallow trees since I cleared the 60 acres off in 2010. Finally got the last of all my big piles burned this year, but I have yet to re-pile and rake all of it.

The tallows sprouted up everywhere that was cleared, as soon as sunlight hit it. and like a damn fool, I tried bush hogging them down, which just caused each one to produce 7-10 more shoots. I have had good luck with Remedy Ultra, but have just spot sprayed so far. I was advised by Texas agrilife to get rid of any seed bearing trees first, and am doing so by frilling the bark and spraying 2 oz (approx) of undiluted Remedy Ultra into the frills. A few days later, they look like full autumn, but I did tank pray some pasture with Remedy Ultra mixed 2 qts with 25 gallons of water late last summer. It killed it, but it sprouted back 10 fold this last spring, and I've had trouble getting the Remedy Ultra to stay mixed in water. It will mix, but not well, since it is formulated with ester oil. I'm beginning to think Remedy is not the final solution to tallows and as soon as I can get my applicator's lic, am going to go with Grazon Next. My stumps have mostly all rotted out already--I hit 'em with a bushog and they explode into dust. The first year tho, I exploded a gearbox.

I have about 15 acres completely clear in good bahia, planted right after I got it cleared and it was nearly 2 ft high the first yea, especially in the areas where I spread the burned piles out. That potash did my soil a BIG favor. I have not limed yet--but need to. The rest of the acerage is part bahia, and part coastal, and even some African Star that was planted in open areas before I got the property. Running 16 cows/calves and one bull on it right now--but not all mine. Beefmaster and Char.

Oh--got loads of goatweed too since last year's drought, which I believe is actually supposed to be called pigweed. I'll Banvel it next year, but for this year, I just keep it mowed before it goes to seed.
I'll post some pics of my piddly work in progress as soon as I figure out this board's method of image posting.

 

[Pineland]

Gb,

I am using Remedy Ultra. But I am also including a non-ionic surfactant. I have a 100 gallon tank on the back of my tractor that has a recycle mixer. I am mixing 2 quarts per hundred. We ran out of surfactant one day and sprayed without it and did not see near the results when using the surfactant. We have been bulk spraying to knock down most of the undesirables and just started on our spot spraying.

sounds like we are doing similar things. The best of luck to ya. Please keep me posted.

 

[greybeard]

Gb,

I am using Remedy Ultra. But I am also including a non-ionic surfactant. I have a 100 gallon tank on the back of my tractor that has a recycle mixer. I am mixing 2 quarts per hundred. We ran out of surfactant one day and sprayed without it and did not see near the results when using the surfactant. We have been bulk spraying to knock down most of the undesirables and just started on our spot spraying.

sounds like we are doing similar things. The best of luck to ya. Please keep me posted.

Yeah, we're close to fighting the same fight for sure. It's pretty easy to take land from the piney wood forest, but a whole lot harder to prevent the forest from taking it back. Then factor in the invasives and it becomes a full time job. I'll get some more recent pics up later, but I'll try these 2 arial images from 2008-2009. Before and after shots. The funny looking area is a Y shaped pond system and it's bare ground--everything else you see is the tops of big pines.

After it was logged and everything was piled for burning--and before I built my house, fences etc. Some of them may have been burned in this one--can't remember. I've marked in where my house currently is I believe. 100' to the left of the house, the Natonal Forest begins. They are my only real neighbor, but they don't give me any hassle.

 

[F350]

Summer update

No lime put out yet. This is after a single pass of Remedy taking out the vast majority of sweetgum and tallow trees.

Pineland:
Which Remedy are you using?
Remedy amine base or Remedy Ultra ester based?
I'm a little further south and maybe east from you--in San Jacinto county, and am doing the same thing you are. Pine forest gone, and almost all the hardwood--nothing left except a few pines, oaks and gum trees along the fencerows and especially around the ponds. My property is bordered on one side by the Sam Houston Natl Forest and on the other by East San Jacinto River, so I do flood occassionally and have been fighting Tallow trees since I cleared the 60 acres off in 2010. Finally got the last of all my big piles burned this year, but I have yet to re-pile and rake all of it.

The tallows sprouted up everywhere that was cleared, as soon as sunlight hit it. and like a be nice fool, I tried bush hogging them down, which just caused each one to produce 7-10 more shoots. I have had good luck with Remedy Ultra, but have just spot sprayed so far. I was advised by Texas agrilife to get rid of any seed bearing trees first, and am doing so by frilling the bark and spraying 2 oz (approx) of undiluted Remedy Ultra into the frills. A few days later, they look like full autumn, but I did tank pray some pasture with Remedy Ultra mixed 2 qts with 25 gallons of water late last summer. It killed it, but it sprouted back 10 fold this last spring, and I've had trouble getting the Remedy Ultra to stay mixed in water. It will mix, but not well, since it is formulated with ester oil. I'm beginning to think Remedy is not the final solution to tallows and as soon as I can get my applicator's lic, am going to go with Grazon Next. My stumps have mostly all rotted out already--I hit 'em with a bushog and they explode into dust. The first year tho, I exploded a gearbox.

I have about 15 acres completely clear in good bahia, planted right after I got it cleared and it was nearly 2 ft high the first yea, especially in the areas where I spread the burned piles out. That potash did my soil a BIG favor. I have not limed yet--but need to. The rest of the acerage is part bahia, and part coastal, and even some African Star that was planted in open areas before I got the property. Running 16 cows/calves and one bull on it right now--but not all mine. Beefmaster and Char.

Oh--got loads of goatweed too since last year's drought, which I believe is actually supposed to be called pigweed. I'll Banvel it next year, but for this year, I just keep it mowed before it goes to seed.
I'll post some pics of my piddly work in progress as soon as I figure out this board's method of image posting.

You'll be very happy with the results using Grazon P+D and surfactant on tallow trees. I sprayed 15 acres last year with the Grazon mixed according to the TAMU brushbusters website and killed 80% of them the first spray.

 

[Pineland]

Gb,

I am using Remedy Ultra. But I am also including a non-ionic surfactant. I have a 100 gallon tank on the back of my tractor that has a recycle mixer. I am mixing 2 quarts per hundred. We ran out of surfactant one day and sprayed without it and did not see near the results when using the surfactant. We have been bulk spraying to knock down most of the undesirables and just started on our spot spraying.

sounds like we are doing similar things. The best of luck to ya. Please keep me posted.

Yeah, we're close to fighting the same fight for sure. It's pretty easy to take land from the piney wood forest, but a whole lot harder to prevent the forest from taking it back. Then factor in the invasives and it becomes a full time job. I'll get some more recent pics up later, but I'll try these 2 arial images from 2008-2009. Before and after shots. The funny looking area is a Y shaped pond system and it's bare ground--everything else you see is the tops of big pines.

After it was logged and everything was piled for burning--and before I built my house, fences etc. Some of them may have been burned in this one--can't remember. I've marked in where my house currently is I believe. 100' to the left of the house, the Natonal Forest begins. They are my only real neighbor, but they don't give me any hassle.

Call me a glutton for punishment but I am actually looking at purchasing ~200 acres near you for my folk to live on. I see the same pine to pasture conversion there as well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Gb,

I am using Remedy Ultra. But I am also including a non-ionic surfactant. I have a 100 gallon tank on the back of my tractor that has a recycle mixer. I am mixing 2 quarts per hundred. We ran out of surfactant one day and sprayed without it and did not see near the results when using the surfactant. We have been bulk spraying to knock down most of the undesirables and just started on our spot spraying.

sounds like we are doing similar things. The best of luck to ya. Please keep me posted.

Yeah, we're close to fighting the same fight for sure. It's pretty easy to take land from the piney wood forest, but a whole lot harder to prevent the forest from taking it back. Then factor in the invasives and it becomes a full time job. I'll get some more recent pics up later, but I'll try these 2 arial images from 2008-2009. Before and after shots. The funny looking area is a Y shaped pond system and it's bare ground--everything else you see is the tops of big pines.

After it was logged and everything was piled for burning--and before I built my house, fences etc. Some of them may have been burned in this one--can't remember. I've marked in where my house currently is I believe. 100' to the left of the house, the Natonal Forest begins. They are my only real neighbor, but they don't give me any hassle.

Two quart's 2-4-D one quart Remedy Ultra to 55 gallons and bye bye tallow trees.
Now if you think this fight is ever going to be over you need medical attention at Rusk.
It will get better as your pasture's improve but it is never over.

 

[greybeard]

It will get better as your pasture's improve but it is never over.

Oh, it will be over for me someday, but last summer, when my wife realized how much I was spending on remedy, she pouted some and said she was gonna throw a handfull of tallow seed in with that last shovel of dirt they cover me up with at the cemetery.
She can be vindictive at times.

 

[Pineland]

This is satellite progression of our efforts.
2005 Not managed other than 10 head of cattle roaming entire propery.

2010 After thinning and 2 years of controlled burns. This image is during the drought. The property was primarily being managed for whitetail deer but had 10 pairs confined to main pasture. They were later released to WMA areas of the property when we ran out of grass.

2012 Clear cut areas with marketable timber, cleared, burned, put in hog proof fencing around perimeter.

This year we are putting in underground piping for watering/irrigation, and subdividing paddocks for rotational grazing. Hopefully it will change yet again in a few years as we still have some tallow areas to attack.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would have to get Fred Flintstone to carve out my first images.
I cut virgin forest some of the pine was so big they had to haul them over to La. as we didn't have a mill that could handle them. I have one stand of Cherrybark Red Oak I left forty to fifty feet to the first limb.
Every year I get an offer on it from a hardwood flooring mill. I like my squirrel hunting to much to sell it.
This old gal is standing in the pasture with the stand of timber in the background.

Another view with the stand on the other side of the pasture.

 

[Pineland]

Beautiful place!!!

I hear you about the big oaks. I have several White Oaks and a few Red Oaks that are massive as you describe. There is also a pretty good stand of Cypress Trees on our place. We have several that are pretty tall. Every time a logging crew comes on I sell a few or trade for some work. Apparently they make for good patios.

 

[greybeard]

Lookin good Pineland!! Lots of work in clearing--makes ya wonder how the early settlers did it with just a pair of mules and a crosscut saw.

I posted my overhead views a few months ago
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=81755

 

[Pineland]

Updated photos taken this past weekend.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Must feel great to be a part of such a transformation.

Good job.

 

[Kingfisher]

Sweet! They should get fat on that kind of grass. Y'all got some rain we just kind of missed last month I believe. I'm doing the cactus patch ~pasture deal and it sure would be kinder if it would rain more....thanks for your post

 

[Pineland]

Thanks Tux! Yes this is a very rewarding experience, but our work is still not complete.

Kingfisher. My prayers continue to go out to you guys for more rain. I travel through your part of the country on business and my family owns some land In Giddings. We have been blessed by having ample rain in east Texas which has made our work much easier. There are several large pine plantations that being clear cut and converted over to pasture in our area now. Many of the Angus and Simmental have been shipped out of the area and they are being replaced with Brangus and Bradford cattle. The drought has definitely changed the way people do things around here.

I started in the cattle business during the drought so I got a valuable lesson right out of the gate.

I hope you guys get wet soon.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Thanks Tux! Yes this is a very rewarding experience, but our work is still not complete.

Kingfisher. My prayers continue to go out to you guys for more rain. I travel through your part of the country on business and my family owns some land In Giddings. We have been blessed by having ample rain in east Texas which has made our work much easier. There are several large pine plantations that being clear cut and converted over to pasture in our area now. Many of the Angus and Simmental have been shipped out of the area and they are being replaced with Brangus and Bradford cattle. The drought has definitely changed the way people do things around here.

I started in the cattle business during the drought so I got a valuable lesson right out of the gate.

I hope you guys get wet soon.

Brimmer 101 is bad lesson to forget in this part of the world.