downed cow

[Victoria]

Wow, this was not the ending I was expecting, especially after hearing she'd been up and down three times on her own. Sounds to me like she was on her way to getting better.

I know it was an accident and that accidents happen but if I were in his position I'd be dropping all charges for floating and giving you a fair value for your cow so that is what I'd expect from him. By fair value I don't mean enough to buy a better than her heifer, just whatever a cow her age would go for at meat prices where you are.

 

[mitchwi]

Wow, this was not the ending I was expecting, especially after hearing she'd been up and down three times on her own. Sounds to me like she was on her way to getting better.

I know it was an accident and that accidents happen but if I were in his position I'd be dropping all charges for floating and giving you a fair value for your cow so that is what I'd expect from him. By fair value I don't mean enough to buy a better than her heifer, just whatever a cow her age would go for at meat prices where you are.

Sorry for the loss! Amazing story...

This man is also running a business, and you had left your animal in his care. I agree with Victoria, charges dropped and a fair $ for your animal.

 

[cmjust0]

I'm pretty sure that, in a situation like this, you actually get to shoot the assistant.. State law, I believe..

Seriously, though, I just can't believe this happened.. I'm really, really sorry to hear it.. I know there are people around here who say that you should walk away and call it even because the guy put a lot of work into the cow, but don't forget that he'd have been right there to collect YOUR money had the cow died naturally... It's not like he was doing this as a favor to you -- this was business..

Honestly, it kinda sounds like the guy might be putting the compensation ball in your court as a tactic, versus an altruistic gesture of goodwill.. I learned a long time ago that one of the most effective ways to deal with a PO'd customer was to ask THEM what you could do to rectify a bad situation.. People are far more likely to accept concrete offers of compensation than they are to ask for something -- no matter how bad things got screwed up.. The more apologetic the management is as they ask what they can do, the worse the customer will feel about demanding what's RIGHT...

That way, management looks good in the eyes of other potential customers, as they so genuinely offered to do whatever it took to set things right, and the customer feels like they were offered compensation but "chose" not to take it -- the proverbial high road, as it were...

All I'm saying is, don't fall for it.. Ask this guy to dismiss his fees and write you a check for $.XX/lb, and see how he reacts.. If he's an honest businessman, he'll get out his checkbook.. If he was playing you to begin with, he'll start trying to negotiate.. Only then will you know what kind of person you're dealing with..

Best of luck, and again, I'm SOOOOO sorry this happened to you!!

 

[nycowgirl]

cmjust0 hit the nail on the head IMHO.

Try thinking like the float tank owner. What would you need to do to to make things right with this customer and to make yourself feel better about this ghastly error? If this guy runs his business like a business he just learned an important lesson, and those aren't often free. this mistake shows how poorly the business is managed. The best advertising is done word of mounth, and I would think he needs to make this right with you, even if it costs him some money. Small claims court would not be good advertising. (I'm picturing Judge Judy with this poor guy!)

I would want him to tear up his bill and replace or give you fair market value for your cow. IMHO.

I am awful sorry for your loss.

 

[Dusty Britches]

I would want him to tear up his bill and replace or give you fair market value for your cow. IMHO.

I am awful sorry for your loss.

Ditto that. Not 1/2 market value - full market value. What was the average price per pound of replacement cows at the sale last week? What would you have sold her for, considering her current condition and considering what her prognosis was?


That is a real sad ending.

 

[plbcattle]

MAN what a bummer. I was hoping to hear a good ending to the story. I had my most expensive reserve champion heifer get down after having a calf this winter. she lost the calf and we went through almost the same thing(without the water tank) The vet felt like she had about 10% chance to make it. she is 100% back to normal minus the calf. One thing to remember through all this is the man is running a business and had put time an dmoney into this animal. He could have said she got real bad and down and put her out of her misery and you wouldn't have know any different. I think he should wipe the bill away and maybe replace her with a calf and you can raise her as a replacement in memory of the lost cow.

 

[ollie']

She was a dead cow when you took her there. I wouldn't expect anything but maybe the bill reduced or forgave. He saved you the bullet and disposed of her for you. I certainly don't think you deserve the price of the cow and no bill. If he could have saved her it would have cost money. If he couldn't have saved her you would be out the price of the cow and the bill which I expect would have been the case.

 

[LisaJoy]

A couple of things....this guy was very apologetic to the point I wanted to give him a hug! I felt so bad for him I forgot that I'm the one with the shot and dead cow. Obviously I'm a softee or I wouldn't have tried all of these options to try to save her to begin with. Anyways, that is an interesting perspective cmjust0 and nycowgirl (...judge judy...yikes! ;-) ), and one which I am going to keep with me for years to come, both in owning up to mistakes as well as observing how others do. And you're right...if he had had a cold and tough luck attitude about it, I would most likely be looking at this from a totally different perspective!
The "newbie green horn" question I have is....how do I determine $/lb for her? It is a total guess to what she weighed...maybe 950 to 1000? (FYI,1/2 and full Piedmontese weigh more than they look due to the double muscle). Because I have no clue about the pricing, (anyone know what a 1/2 peidmontese heifer would cost?) So, I said I would rather him replace her, any beef breed. He said if that is my choice, most likely a 2 yr. old beef heifer would be bred or with a calf at her side and is that ok? of course! Then the guilt creeps in again that is it fair to him?
I expressed one request, since I have a small closed herd of cattle, that ideally I don't want something that's gone thru a sale barn. He said, no problem, he's been in dairy and beef for years and he knows many farmers where he could get a heifer right from the farm.
I really want to handle this with integrity... I'm looking forward to your responses, and appreciate each one that has been written so far.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If you take an animal, I'd approach it as telling him, "You do what's fair in her replacement, but I am only going to take a different cow if you let me pay you for what you've done, that way I could be fair too."

Personally, I go back to my original statements in this subject. I don't think I'd take an animal from him. He probably feels bad if he took anything from you for all his work, after he replaces the cows.

Keep in mind that there may be a next time. The fact that this guy provides such a service tells me he cares about cattle. The fact that you didn't "put her down" tells me something too.

If you take a replacement cow, he probably will feel better about it. If he lets you pay him something, You'll feel better about it as well. Sounds like grounds for a new friendship.

 

[sidney411]

I agree with BHB, that way neither of you feels like you 'took' the other, or feel like you got 'took'.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[L Weir]

I am sorry to hear the ending to this was bad. I thought everyone knows what a Holstein looks like.

 

[longhorn314]

When I run a business and I make a mistake I am liable for that mistake.There are some hardballs on here saying he shouldn't be liable but in my opinion ,this was his business and they SHOT the wrong cow.So I think you need to have fair compensation for your cow.

 

[Farmhand]

I don't think you are intitled to both a replacement and no bill. The bill should still stand as he provided a service that could have still ended up with a dead cow. There was no guarentee the cow would improve any from the condition you took her there in. I think you should pay the bill anyway. I could see you asking for the price you would have gotten for her if you had sold her the day she was shot but not anymore than that.

 

[warpaint]

I am terribly sorry for your loss.

 

[aplusmnt]

If you take an animal, I'd approach it as telling him, "You do what's fair in her replacement, but I am only going to take a different cow if you let me pay you for what you've done, that way I could be fair too."

Personally, I go back to my original statements in this subject. I don't think I'd take an animal from him. He probably feels bad if he took anything from you for all his work, after he replaces the cows.

Keep in mind that there may be a next time. The fact that this guy provides such a service tells me he cares about cattle. The fact that you didn't "put her down" tells me something too.

If you take a replacement cow, he probably will feel better about it. If he lets you pay him something, You'll feel better about it as well. Sounds like grounds for a new friendship.

Agree with BHB here. I do not think taking a cow and not paying would be fair. My first impression was to say just call it even for the floating bill. But after thinking about it longer and from the perspecitve that this guy offers a business service, that he charges people for. Seems like you said he does quite a few a week for people. Since he offers a service that most likely is less successful than it is successful with downed cows. And he charges those when it does not work. Then I feel he owes you.

To assume he does not owe you for the cow would be saying his business is a sham and he is cheating people out of money for a service that does not work. Since he will take money for a service that likely fails more than works. I would let him pay something. Either a percentage of the cows worth and no bill. Or you pay the bill and he provides you with a comparable cow. You had already lost the calf so anything close to same year and quality ready to breed would work.

But unless he has his own cows so he could offer you one as a savings to himself to help you out. I would just figure on a cash payout, price of cow - floating coast = check to you. (and maybe take a little less because of odds you would not get a good cow anyway). Less chance of problems with cash!

 

[cmjust0]

I expressed one request, since I have a small closed herd of cattle, that ideally I don't want something that's gone thru a sale barn. He said, no problem, he's been in dairy and beef for years and he knows many farmers where he could get a heifer right from the farm.

If he wasn't sincere about wanting to make things right, he would have started backing up as soon as you said you'd rather have a replacement than cash value... If he's smart, he'll find you a top notch replacement, dismiss all fees, and send you out of there with you feeling like he went too far to make things right...

He might eat the profit on the next 10 or so floats to pay this one off, but for a small business owner so dependant on word-of-mouth referrals, neutralizing a biggie like this ALWAYS pays huge returns...

Keep us posted, if you don't care to.. I'm willing to bet that he finds you a heifer (or maybe even a cow/calf pair) you'll be proud to call your own -- AND that he does it in record time!

 

[LisaJoy]

I'm certainly willing to keep you posted (happy you are even interested). I continue to read all of your responses over and over and am doing alot of thinking about this whole thing. Not to make it into a bigger deal than it is, but to be real about how many different approaches there are to handle this. I'm determined to find which one is the fairest to both of us. I may call him and ask him what he feels is fair, tonight.
I've shared the information and advice you have passed on to me with a friend. She is putting the response by cmjust0 into action in with awkward situation that needed to be cleaned up in her business, this afternoon!
Sharing wisdom is a wonderful thing, you never know who's life it will touch...thank you.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Have been following this unfortunate situation and am really sorry for your loss. Always tough to loose one, especially in these circumstances.

It is apparent from all your posts that both of you are people of high integrity. I have no doubt the man was raised the same as myself. In the event a mistake is made that damages someone else, you do what it takes to make it right. That being said, IMO, only you can decide what is right for you. While you did lose a cow, it was not certain that she would have completely recovered. My advice is to pay the man for his "floating service" & he pay you what is a fair value of your cow at the time of her death What is a price you can accept for your cow that you will feel is fair, yet sleep well at night because it was fair to the other man also? Not an easy decision to make, but I'm confident you will come up with something acceptable to all.

Where's ol' Soloman when you really need him?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Best wishes & good luck

Brock

 

[Bama]

Lets see your cow maybe had a 50/50 chance of making it. What was your cow worth before the problem. If he replaces her with one of equal value it wouldn't be fair to him. Say he give's you 50 % of what the cow was worth. We did say she had a 50% chance of making it. Now for his services for floating. We know she wouldn't have made it without it so he should be compensated for that. So, 50 percent of the value for your cow minus his services should be about fair for both of you. I bet it would be about a wash either way.

 

[rkm]

I just got home and wanted to check on your cow. Wow! Welcome to the cattle business. If he has a business he should have liability insurance. Maybe you have insurance, it was a accident. He seems to be honest, and thats rare these days.

Anyway I'm sorry about your heifer. I think we all learned from your misfortune.

rkm