Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
That system worked for Limousin since the breed started the EPD for doc. Was a bunch of folks that recorded that data. It works.
TennesseeTuxedo":19j2c3tl said:We have one bull who I would have given a super high DOC score to for the first 24 months we had him but here lately he's been unpredictable and a little scary. I don't let him catch me out where he's got the advantage.
3waycross":3sc8o54e said:TennesseeTuxedo":3sc8o54e said:We have one bull who I would have given a super high DOC score to for the first 24 months we had him but here lately he's been unpredictable and a little scary. I don't let him catch me out where he's got the advantage.
time for him to go then?
Nesikep":2m3m9bzf said:WalnutCrest.
I will take a the most docile animal ANY DAY of the week.. If I feel like they should fear me, a daily zap with a hotshot for a week will GUARANTEE a worse score.. it's EASY to get a worse score.
What I don't like are animals that are unafraid and stupid or spooky. I know the ones I just can't trust to not jump and freak out at a bag flapping somewhere, or the ones that go from being nice all year to wicked witches at calving time.. THOSE are my definition of bad temperaments.. I have cows that aren't tame, they like their distance, but they behave predictably.
You wouldn't like Mega.. I can just walk up to her, put the milk bucket under her, and milk.
Andyva beat me on this.. yes there are many aspects of docility, and trying to lump it all together, though well intentioned may not work out that well.
My current Limo bull has been really good, I have had to shoo him off once or twice when he wanted more attention than I was prepared to give him, but he's always behaved well. My yearling is shaping up to be similar, he doesn't get worked up about anything and takes everything in stride.
Our Gelbvieh bull wasn't a *tame* bull, he liked to be about 5 feet away, but wasn't freaky either.. even after the 5 hour ride to the sale barn he was calm, and just ambled out of the trailer and into his pen.
Now our Shorthorn bull (and his son) were a whole other story, They were friendly enough when they were here, but as soon as they had to be worked they turned into manhunters.. Lady who runs the sale barn remembers that 2400 lb monster very well, and she sees a few animals!.. The son went to the butcher, and he wasn't much better.. I had him in a 3 horse angle haul trailer, and to unlatch his gate I had to get in there... I straddled the windows with my legs, and unhooked his gate, and then he wanted to turn ME into hamburger, I had my back up against the roof, and my calculations were correct, he couldn't reach me up there, but he sure tried! Good riddance to both of those arseholes!
Red Bull Breeder":no191hae said:Just what is he doing to scare you TT?
Red Bull Breeder":1ihnb5yn said:Any one tried busting his nose with a good club? Some times it does wonders for one. For your mother inlaws sake just go ahead and get him gone.
There was some discussion of this recently on another site. Some people found the test to be accurate on their animals and others claimed it was way off. I have done the Igenity test on one bull back in 2010 and did a couple using the Zoetis HD50 test last year. The original test rated my bull as about middle of the road. He was always a nervous animal, and would go nuts if left alone. He had not been aggressive as a young bull, but at 4 he took a run at my husband when we tried load him. He went to the sale barn. I would not have considered that test accurate for him, but it was 5 years ago, and there is more data now, so the test is likely more accurate. On the two bulls I did recently, one received a score of 15 and the other a 62. Scores go from 1 to 100 with the lower score indicating more docility. They look at markers in the DNA that they feel are associated with certain qualities. They determine the number of markers an animal has in favor of (or against) a certain trait, and that is used for scoring. In my case the bull with the 62 docility rating was a bull I chose over several other bulls, because of his good attitude. He has been very easy to work with and I would consider him docile. He is 4 years old, and has always been handled calmly. Perhaps under pressure, I might see another side of him. Most of his calves were also quiet, but a few were a bit high strung when compared to the calves of another bull I had used AI. The AI bull only had a few calves to compare, so that may just have been luck. I looked up the Zoetis HD50K DOC score for that bull, and it was a 4. That bull's docility EPD is 28 with a .89 accuracy. For him the score works, but his DNA Markers may have been used when developing the test. In my opinion the bull with the score of 15 is about the same in disposition as the bull with the 62. He is a son of the bull that scored 4. He is young and I don't have offspring by him yet. I am not sure whether I think the scores are accurate or not. I certainly don't have enough confidence in them to base a purchasing decision on them without observing the bull himself.WalnutCrest":2vt5fq2h said:I still would love anyone to comment on the reliability of the Igenity Docility score ...
WalnutCrest":3s7dh2i3 said:I still would love anyone to comment on the reliability of the Igenity Docility score ...