Do Cows Like You?

[M5farm]

Most of us are so careful not to anthropomorphize cattle that I think we're sometimes in danger of completely dismissing some of the intelligence and, dare I suggest it, feelings, they have. I know their intelligence(s) are not the same as ours, but just because they cannot be measured in the same ways, does that mean they lack insights we don't glean? I think it is we who lack intelligence in discerning some of theirs.

I've gradually become aware of an empathic sense around my animals. Whether this is innate in me, or developed over my years of farming, I can't tell. If you don't believe in that sort of "intelligence", you'll dismiss it; but I believe there's far more to learn about intelligence and sentience than we yet know. We'll all probably be dead by the time somebody figures out some of this stuff.

I am quite sure that one or two of my cattle are seriously emotionally (ooooh, scary word) attached to me. I groom and spend time with all of them and many of them are pretty care-less about it other than the good physical feeling it gives them. The ones with the attachment give me a completely different sort of sense of their emotional/mental state when we're close. Most of you will dismiss this as bunkum, but I find it really interesting and suspect there's far more to it than any of us currently understands.

i had one that would go out of her way to lick me every time I had to work on fence. I think she liked the way I tasted.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Most of us are so careful not to anthropomorphize cattle that I think we're sometimes in danger of completely dismissing some of the intelligence and, dare I suggest it, feelings, they have. I know their intelligence(s) are not the same as ours, but just because they cannot be measured in the same ways, does that mean they lack insights we don't glean? I think it is we who lack intelligence in discerning some of theirs.

I've gradually become aware of an empathic sense around my animals. Whether this is innate in me, or developed over my years of farming, I can't tell. If you don't believe in that sort of "intelligence", you'll dismiss it; but I believe there's far more to learn about intelligence and sentience than we yet know. We'll all probably be dead by the time somebody figures out some of this stuff.

I am quite sure that one or two of my cattle are seriously emotionally (ooooh, scary word) attached to me. I groom and spend time with all of them and many of them are pretty care-less about it other than the good physical feeling it gives them. The ones with the attachment give me a completely different sort of sense of their emotional/mental state when we're close. Most of you will dismiss this as bunkum, but I find it really interesting and suspect there's far more to it than any of us currently understands.

x2

It is far easier to dismiss an animal that you are about to eat as stupid, unfeeling, and inferior than to acknowledge that it is food and an aware being. It does not keep me from raising an animal and enjoying the resultant steak, but the animal also deserves my respect, which is why it was treated fairly and kindly during life. If we didn't eat them, they would not exist. Many of you may think I am full of it and are free to carry on thinking they are automatons with hooves, that's fine. I just find it very interesting that we spend millions of dollars trying to communicate with aliens when we can't communicate with any other beings here on Earth.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I love all cows so don't tell me they don't all love me back, it could take years for me to get over such a thing.

 

[Nite Hawk]

I do believe that animals are capable of feeling emotion, maybe not quite in the same way as we do, but emotion none the less.
I have seen some animals that are quite dumb, and kind of blunder through life, but I have seen some very intelligent critters, who I am sure feel emotion. You can watch their eyes flicker as they are thinking in what ever way animals think, and are planning their great escape or some other escapade.
You can see emotions in cattle, a switch of a tail when milking tells you they are annoyed, or pawing the ground they are getting nasty. A soft moo when they see someone they know and they figure goodies are on the way, and an annoyed cow when someone they don't know comes around. They know who they "like" and don't "like".
some animals you don't "click" with--you don't like them and they don't like you, but come around just for the food or what you can give them. Others seem to like your company.
If you don't think animals have emotions-fine, but I do think they do have emotions to a certain degree...

 

[inyati13]

Most of us are so careful not to anthropomorphize cattle that I think we're sometimes in danger of completely dismissing some of the intelligence and, dare I suggest it, feelings, they have. I know their intelligence(s) are not the same as ours, but just because they cannot be measured in the same ways, does that mean they lack insights we don't glean? I think it is we who lack intelligence in discerning some of theirs.

I've gradually become aware of an empathic sense around my animals. Whether this is innate in me, or developed over my years of farming, I can't tell. If you don't believe in that sort of "intelligence", you'll dismiss it; but I believe there's far more to learn about intelligence and sentience than we yet know. We'll all probably be dead by the time somebody figures out some of this stuff.

I am quite sure that one or two of my cattle are seriously emotionally (ooooh, scary word) attached to me. I groom and spend time with all of them and many of them are pretty care-less about it other than the good physical feeling it gives them. The ones with the attachment give me a completely different sort of sense of their emotional/mental state when we're close. Most of you will dismiss this as bunkum, but I find it really interesting and suspect there's far more to it than any of us currently understands.

No sir, what you say is not bunkum. I share those same sentiments. I know that most of the people who post on Cattle Today make their living with cattle. Their working view of them is appropriate and I respect every person's opinion but that does not mean anyone has made any comment above to persuade me that science has not missed the boat on understanding the brains of mammals that are below man on the phylogenetic tree.

Redcowsrule33 stated, "Many of you may think I am full of it and are free to carry on thinking they are automatons with hooves, that's fine. I just find it very interesting that we spend millions of dollars trying to communicate with aliens when we can't communicate with any other beings here on Earth." Redcow, it don't matter one hoot and a holler whether anyone on here thinks you are full of it or not. It is difficult to tell what anyone thinks by their words anyway. A very wise and clever friend of mine always said, "don't listen to what someone is saying to you; listen for what they are not telling you." I happen to agree with your statement. Have a great day.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Most of us are so careful not to anthropomorphize cattle that I think we're sometimes in danger of completely dismissing some of the intelligence and, dare I suggest it, feelings, they have. I know their intelligence(s) are not the same as ours, but just because they cannot be measured in the same ways, does that mean they lack insights we don't glean? I think it is we who lack intelligence in discerning some of theirs.

I've gradually become aware of an empathic sense around my animals. Whether this is innate in me, or developed over my years of farming, I can't tell. If you don't believe in that sort of "intelligence", you'll dismiss it; but I believe there's far more to learn about intelligence and sentience than we yet know. We'll all probably be dead by the time somebody figures out some of this stuff.

I am quite sure that one or two of my cattle are seriously emotionally (ooooh, scary word) attached to me. I groom and spend time with all of them and many of them are pretty care-less about it other than the good physical feeling it gives them. The ones with the attachment give me a completely different sort of sense of their emotional/mental state when we're close. Most of you will dismiss this as bunkum, but I find it really interesting and suspect there's far more to it than any of us currently understands.

Cattle know if you are framiliar or not - - and they react.
Cattle know if you like them or not - - and they react.
and then a few cattle just want to spend lots of time with you even if they are not being fed... What should we call this?

We loaded out stocker heifers some years ago and one just stood there giving me the look. She stayed and we named her Opra. Once in a while when I am not on a mission, I will lay down in the new grass after a paddock shift and watch the cattle for a while. Opra will make a point of grazing right next to me even if the herd moves away...

 

[chippie]

It is funny how people read things into what another person posts.
The question was "Do your cows like you?"
Now it has changed into how intelligent cattle are and whether or not a person respects their cows. I don't believe that anyone said that their cattle were stupid and unthinking.

Cattle are individuals like people. Some breeds have been bred to be easily handled and to accept people. Some breeds think differently from other breeds. Brahman come to mind. You can't work them like the other breeds.

I have a bottle calf right now. He really likes me because I feed him. He likes any person because to him, people mean food.
Will he still like me when he is weaned and turned out to pasture?

Stocker Steve - I think that one could say that Opra accepts you. You are not a threat. That is pretty cool.

 

[glacierridge]

I do believe that animals are capable of feeling emotion, maybe not quite in the same way as we do, but emotion none the less.
I have seen some animals that are quite dumb, and kind of blunder through life, but I have seen some very intelligent critters, who I am sure feel emotion. You can watch their eyes flicker as they are thinking in what ever way animals think, and are planning their great escape or some other escapade.
You can see emotions in cattle, a switch of a tail when milking tells you they are annoyed, or pawing the ground they are getting nasty. A soft moo when they see someone they know and they figure goodies are on the way, and an annoyed cow when someone they don't know comes around. They know who they "like" and don't "like".
some animals you don't "click" with--you don't like them and they don't like you, but come around just for the food or what you can give them. Others seem to like your company.
If you don't think animals have emotions-fine, but I do think they do have emotions to a certain degree...

Ditto.

 

[dun]

Sounds like some folks are getting close to "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." (peta)

 

[angie1]

I had goats back in the day. I decided to switch from French Alpines to Nubians. I had a French Alpine that was very attached to me, very possessive of my attention. She was the last one of the French Alpines I sold, and it did not sit well with me, but I figured I would get over it. A couple of weeks after I sold her I was thinking of her every day and still regretting having sold her. I called the people I sold her to to see how she was doing. They informed me that she never once ate or drank on their property, and died shortly after they bought her (spare me the "why didn't they call you" questions, I cannot rationalize the thinking of irrational people). I believe that she was strongly emotionally attached to me. I believe she "liked" me.

Just an example.

 

[Dave]

This morning while I was feeding #8 stepped on my foot. Not on top of my foot but the side just below the ankle. It hurt. So does that cow like me? I don't think so. Now the rest of the cows are scared of me after watching me jumping around cussing like a mad man.

 

[glacierridge]

Sounds like some folks are getting close to "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." (peta)

Eh. I just have respect and like for a good animal over a bad person.
In the end, cows are still on my menu, I just prefer one that I don't like as much and didn't like me.

 

[angie1]

Sounds like some folks are getting close to "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." (peta)

Eh. I just have respect and like for a good animal over a bad person.
In the end, cows are still on my menu, I just prefer one that I don't like as much and didn't like me.

Don't let dun make ya feel like a freak. He spends more than a little time out there socializing with his cattle. :nod:

 

[inyati13]

It is funny how people read things into what another person posts.
The question was "Do your cows like you?"
Now it has changed into how intelligent cattle are and whether or not a person respects their cows. I don't believe that anyone said that their cattle were stupid and unthinking.

Cattle are individuals like people. Some breeds have been bred to be easily handled and to accept people. Some breeds think differently from other breeds. Brahman come to mind. You can't work them like the other breeds.

I have a bottle calf right now. He really likes me because I feed him. He likes any person because to him, people mean food.
Will he still like me when he is weaned and turned out to pasture?

Stocker Steve - I think that one could say that Opra accepts you. You are not a threat. That is pretty cool.

chippie, I see the same thing happen on almost every thread. I think part of it is because readers are in a hurry and don't have the time to read the details. Then they post what stikes their mind and it moves things off subject. I was bothered by the same thing especially when I wanted information. Now, "I just go with the flow, like a twig on the banks of a mighty river." John Candy, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Now this will become the subject. :???:

 

[Victoria]

The cows that don't like me are no longer my cows. To say a cow is just like a person is ridiculous. To say a cow has no emotions and is like a tree is just as ridiculous. I know animals can "like" people. However, they like a person based on what said person does for them, not for who the person is and I think that is what separates the animal emotion of "like" and the human emotion of "like". We can like based on character. Although there are some people out there who only like people based on what they can give them too. So maybe that isn't a perfect example.
People can be accepted as part of the herd and just as you will often see the 2 cows sticking together - apparently they enjoy each others company the same can be said for a person and a cow.

 

[Putangitangi]

It is funny how people read things into what another person posts.
The question was "Do your cows like you?"
Now it has changed into how intelligent cattle are and whether or not a person respects their cows. I don't believe that anyone said that their cattle were stupid and unthinking.

Cattle are individuals like people. Some breeds have been bred to be easily handled and to accept people. Some breeds think differently from other breeds. Brahman come to mind. You can't work them like the other breeds.
...

chippie, I see the same thing happen on almost every thread. I think part of it is because readers are in a hurry and don't have the time to read the details. Then they post what strikes their mind and it moves things off subject. ...

A large part of the original post questioned whether or not "like" was an appropriate concept, and very clearly canvassed whether or not animals can feel or think and whether their behavior is only determined by their survival instinct or not.

 

[inyati13]

The cows that don't like me are no longer my cows. To say a cow is just like a person is ridiculous. To say a cow has no emotions and is like a tree is just as ridiculous. I know animals can "like" people. However, they like a person based on what said person does for them, not for who the person is and I think that is what separates the animal emotion of "like" and the human emotion of "like". We can like based on character. Although there are some people out there who only like people based on what they can give them too. So maybe that isn't a perfect example.
People can be accepted as part of the herd and just as you will often see the 2 cows sticking together - apparently they enjoy each others company the same can be said for a person and a cow.

Well said, and you made a fine point here. Help me here, the example stated above you qualified as "isn't a perfect example". It is not perfect because the lower animals are motivated by less sophisticated stimuli, but it is still based on the same functional rudiments. It comes back to the cliche, "there is more that binds us, than there is that separates us."

I started this thread and it is ony academic. I started it to explore the following comment that a friend of mine made in giving me excellent advice on vaccinating cattle, " The trick is the tight squeeze and work back towards the shoulder- she does not like you and does not have any feelings for you - so do it fast - get the job done and kick her out - on to the next one" My thought was, What difference does it make whether she likes me or not? Now, I know what my friend meant and he wasn't writing a thesis that needed to be defended in a graduate class. He knows something about how I operate and was perceptive enough to wonder if my feelings toward my cows affect how I perform this work. I think he was correct to do so. Having said that, if you will go back and look you will see that I started this thread with the statement that like is not a good word to use. Try to define love and you will see that it is everything from lust to companionship. My final point is this, there is more that goes on in a lower mammals brain than humans understand. I will place that in the category of a theory. If you want an opinion, I think that lower mammals not only display emotions but actually experience emotions in their brain. It has always been a tenant of science that lower animals only display emotions but humans experience them because they have the regions of the brain to do so.

 

[inyati13]

Putangitangi stated, "A large part of the original post questioned whether or not "like" was an appropriate concept, and very clearly canvassed whether or not animals can feel or think and whether their behavior is only determined by their survival instinct or not."

Thank you. That is correct. That is what I was dicussing. Is the quality of liking and disliking appropriate for cows? I think it is not the right word but that the stimulus/response mechanism that we commonly associate with the word "like" is there in the cow.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Personally I do think cattle can "like" other cattle and people. I know when I relief milked, there were 2 cows that were "buddies" out of the herd, and almost always came in the line up at the same time,and on the same side,
and we were milking a double 6 parlour, out of a high of about 90 cows.
A cow will lick another cow so as to get their buddy to lick them, but they will also lick another animal or human if they "like" that person or cow buddy, even when they don't taste good, take for example my work coveralls!
I figure if a cow can feel anger, annoyed, pleasure, etc, they can feel the emotion of--"liking" something or one...

 

[regolith]

I started this thread and it is ony academic. I started it to explore the following comment that a friend of mine made in giving me excellent advice on vaccinating cattle, " The trick is the tight squeeze and work back towards the shoulder- she does not like you and does not have any feelings for you - so do it fast - get the job done and kick her out - on to the next one" My thought was, What difference does it make whether she likes me or not? Now, I know what my friend meant and he wasn't writing a thesis that needed to be defended in a graduate class. He knows something about how I operate and was perceptive enough to wonder if my feelings toward my cows affect how I perform this work. I think he was correct to do so. Having said that, if you will go back and look you will see that I started this thread with the statement that like is not a good word to use. Try to define love and you will see that it is everything from lust to companionship. My final point is this, there is more that goes on in a lower mammals brain than humans understand. I will place that in the category of a theory. If you want an opinion, I think that lower mammals not only display emotions but actually experience emotions in their brain. It has always been a tenant of science that lower animals only display emotions but humans experience them because they have the regions of the brain to do so.

Given the context of the original quote, I think your thinking has gone on quite a sideways tangent - though resulting in an interesting and not very surprising discussion. Everyone has their own ways of relating to cattle. And interpret their observations of cattle in their own way.
Now a cow in a chute, I can *guarantee* she doesn't like you, especially if she's been in fear or pain in that chute before. Working unpleasant tasks the cow's mind is mostly on the situation, the handler will make their job easier and the cow less stressed by working quietly and efficiently and avoiding doing things (such as approaching her head straight on or looking in her eyes) that in cattle language is a threat.

I liked Victoria's comment. To me there is little difference in emotional capability between people and cows. However, I'm not around people much and as I've got older have learned certain things about myself - ergo, that there are things other humans consider normal among humans that are completely beyond my ability to comprehend.
Cows and people don't speak the same language. Bit of a barrier to understanding, no? Even the best of communication between cow and handler is mainly a crude sign language.

some people are of the belief that a stone is a tree is soil is a flower is a rat is a...
Each to their own. The belief that each has a 'spirit' of sort is not incompatible with believing in different levels of conscious and ability.