Disappointing results

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So sorry to hear of all the problems. I hope the weather turns around soon for everyone. Still cold as a witch's whatzit here.

I'm curious as to biologically why the calves are heavier if the weather the last trimester has been very cold?
 
boondocks":nktr1jlc said:
So sorry to hear of all the problems. I hope the weather turns around soon for everyone. Still cold as a witch's whatzit here.

I'm curious as to biologically why the calves are heavier if the weather the last trimester has been very cold?
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It's well documemted that due to the cold the dams blood supply is routed more internally then usual so rthe calf has more nutrients via the increased blood supply to it.
That also is why northern born clalves are typicially heavier at birth then southern born calves
 
I think it's been discussed here before about how often a cow may birth a backwards calf with little problem.
I often think about it and am somewhat relieved at the light birthweight from my last bull.
Lost a calf about this time last year. It was a breech from a purchased cow.

fitz
 
fitz":68wg6ko6 said:
I think it's been discussed here before about how often a cow may birth a backwards calf with little problem.
I often think about it and am somewhat relieved at the light birthweight from my last bull.
Lost a calf about this time last year. It was a breech from a purchased cow.

fitz
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As soon as the calf pops out, but maybe not all the way, if the cow stands up everything is hundy sory. If they're tired, like this heifer was and don;t stand up immediatly the calf will suffocate. It was just a fluke that I happened to be there just exactly in time. Being a Granny grand daughter I'm kind of attached to the cow. She's not a pet, kind of standoffish like Granny was, but I still get a twinkle in my eye when any of her descendents do well.
 
Actually if you read about it, Backwards presentation is considered a normal presentation so long as both feet and the tail are where they should be. The reality is of course that normal or not backwards often causes problems, partly because the butt is not nearly as aerodynamic as the head is and partly because of the fact that the umbilical gets pinched or torn before the calf's face is out which can cause suffocation if the birth is long.

As far as what causes it, I wouldn't totally be shocked to find that it can be a genetic thing, although we've only run into a couple cases where a cow has had more than 1. Mostly I think that what causes it is the simple fact that at some point in time the fetus (which has been rolling around in there) just gets too big to turn anymore.
 
I have never yet seen a front leg turned the wrong way, but enough hind legs. I found with backwards presentations it doesn't stimulate the contractions much, which compounds the problem of the umbilical cord getting pinched sooner, etc. So far I've never caught a breech birth in time to get it out alive either.
 
The trick about saving backwards, breech, upside down etc calves where the cow doesn't always go into 'hard' labour is knowing and watching your cows. We've saved all of the above, and most of the ones we've had that were in those presentations. But it is a hard decision to bring in a cow that really hasn't done anything more than wander around a bit with her tail up off and on. The one yesterday proved my point that it's better to check one that doesn't need it than to leave one that did. And the sooner you check the better the chance of a live calf.
 
During one of our rare batches of ice and snow I had one wander into an old barn to calve. That alone was a first. I don't know how long she had been in there before I noticed her but I could see hooves sticking out. I let her be. An hour or so later nothing much had happened so I thought I had better check a little closer. The hooves were still out but the presentation appeared to be sideways. I left to go get some chains and when I returned the cow spooked out of the barn and went to join the rest of the herd. I drove down with the 4 wheeler to see what I could do and now the hooves were upside down. She acted like she wanted to go back to the barn so I got her and a few other cows heading that way. She was spooky and half ran as much as walked. I decided to let her calm down before I tried anything else. 30 minutes later she had a large bull calf laying next to her but it did have contracted tendons on its rear legs. She licked it off and let me look at the calf up close. I straightened his legs and helped him up and he walked on his hocks a bit to nurse. After the ordeal was over, I wondered if the jaunt around the pasture actually helped out the situation. Did the jostling around of the calf in the birth canal get it untwisted and turned more in the correct way?
By the next morning the calf was still wobbly but was walking on his hooves and seemed no worse for the wear.
 
sometimes a light trot seems to help them get things in line... my cow that had the big bull calves would always get up and lay down about 20 times, stretch, etc until she seemed happy with the way it was, then she'd get down to business.

I've got my first of the year on the way now.. water hasn't broken yet.. Of course it's right when I need to leave and deliver a load of hay
 
I had one today that was upside down and legs folded back I took her to the vet and they got the legs out and pulled the calf it took two hours from when I found her till the calf was out l though the calf would be dead and vet said he couldn't feel it move and it wasn't fighting him when he was getting the leg out but it was still alive took her a while to stand and nurse but she doin ok now
 
Had a nice black baldy bull calf last night. Last year, we lost both her twins, one born dead, the other was huge and what I would describe as "dumb?" Beautiful boy, but wouldn't stand, wouldn't/couldn't suck. We tubed him for a week, but "Finn" didn't make it. I was paranoid for this year's calf and had mama in the lot this week to be on hand. She was unsettled all day yesterday and I finally turned her out about 6PM. Went to find and check her at 8PM and she was in hard labor. Watched her precious boy be born without a hitch before 9PM. Would she still be pacing in the lot this AM waiting to calve had I not let her out?...or is that even possible?
 
kucala5":1mj3iehn said:
Had a nice black baldy bull calf last night. Last year, we lost both her twins, one born dead, the other was huge and what I would describe as "dumb?" Beautiful boy, but wouldn't stand, wouldn't/couldn't suck. We tubed him for a week, but "Finn" didn't make it. I was paranoid for this year's calf and had mama in the lot this week to be on hand. She was unsettled all day yesterday and I finally turned her out about 6PM. Went to find and check her at 8PM and she was in hard labor. Watched her precious boy be born without a hitch before 9PM. Would she still be pacing in the lot this AM waiting to calve had I not let her out?...or is that even possible?
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Don't think she can defy Mother Nature but so long, but I have penned them up over the years and it seems they try to hold them.

fitz
 
They definitely can hold them for a while. But pacing is also a normal thing, just more noticeable in a small area. We calve lots in the barn when it's cold out. Lots of times we've put one in at night thinking she might calve and she doesn't and when we let her out in the morning (if its nice out) she'll have a calf within 1/2 hour. But we've kept them in too and never had issues with a calf because of it.
 
kucala, It's hard to say.. They can't hold them in forever.. Maybe it would have been another hour had you left her in the pen... Glad she did it right this time
 
Ok, spoke too soon. So, new boy baby isn't sucking. Mama's is willing and bag is perfect but he doesn't seem to "get" it. We had to work real hard to get the colostrum in him with a bottle this AM. We put her in the shoot to get him on her but still he wouldn't cooperate. He just took another quart of colostrum and was sucking the bottle so good, I mixed up a quart of milk and he sucked it down. I'm hoping he's learned the sucking thing now and breakfast will be on mama's dime. One thing odd about this little guy is he bawls ALOT. He was bawling at 4 this AM when I checked him and has barely shut up except to sleep. Thoughts?
 
He's hungry most likely. Had the same thing with one a few days ago. Thing is with ours, he sucked right after he was born. Then seemed to forget where it came from. He bawled all night and when I finally checked him out in the morning, he went to sucking my finger like crazy, which sent red flags up for me because a calf that is sucking his mama usually won't suck on your finger they try to spit it out. So we got them in and milked her out (to make sure her teats weren't plugged) bottle fed him a bit and then got him sucking her. And it was all uphill from there and he is fine now.
 
Thanks Randi. Hoping for the best in the AM. She wasn't plugged, but I milked her down a bit while I had her in the shoot. Sorta thinking his sucking reflux didn't engage without encouragement? He did good this evening. We've had 3 mama's in the shoot already this season and while the experience is good to have being a newbie, my ship list is growing.
 

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