Diesel shortage

[Little Joe]

Well a new diesel bus costs about 250/280K and have probably gone up. Plus all the infrastructure involved using internal combustion engines. Fuel and oil aren't cheap, filters etc. And electrics have a lot less moving parts and are easier to work on. Lifespan should be improved.

There's reasons trains are powered by electric motors even when those motors are powered by diesel generators.

I also know there are downsides to electric. Battery disposal/recycle comes to mind.

I don't know what the actual figures are... but I'd like to see them.

School buses don't cost that much new, I can give you an exact figure later today when I get to work as we just purchased some new buses. They were ordered in the spring and were supposed to be delivered before school started, they're telling us February at the earliest now. They've been built and have been sitting on a lot waiting on some equipment to be installed for months now. We run Cummins diesels with Allison transmissions in all of our buses except one older one that has a rear engine CAT.

 

[Little Joe]

Most buses never leave town, anyway.

Wow really, you need to explain how that works to our school district. 750-800 kids attend our school in a city with a population of 600, we run 0 buses in town 8 in the country.

 

[Buck Randall]

These are school busses and the town is very small.

Thanks. I didn't realize they were school buses.

 

[greybeard]

Well a new diesel bus costs about 250/280K and have probably gone up. Plus all the infrastructure involved using internal combustion engines. Fuel and oil aren't cheap, filters etc. And electrics have a lot less moving parts and are easier to work on. Lifespan should be improved.

There's reasons trains are powered by electric motors even when those motors are powered by diesel generators.

I also know there are downsides to electric. Battery disposal/recycle comes to mind.

I don't know what the actual figures are... but I'd like to see them.

You are ignoring the fact that the same 'infrastructure' that diesel bus use entails also applies to the diesel/electric traction motor propulsion that modern trains use. A train locomotive in a single day will put more and harder hours and miles on their engines than a fleet of buses will in a month.
(I've worked on diesel electric propulsion in both marine propulsion (tugboats and larger vessels) and in the oil and gas sector. DE requires a LOT of maintenance.

The reason trains went to diesel/electric is not so much for fuel economy, but mostly for the control aspect that the electric traction motors allows. Same with the oilfield equipment. You have to remember, that back when diesel trains began, the only other option at the time was steam. They did try gas turbines over electric at different times, but the noise levels from the GTs were simply too high.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not sure what the reason but on road diesel was 5.70 and off road was 4.99 at
The terminal in Knoxville TN this afternoon. Add 5 cents to haul it here. We are still able to get several tractor trailer loads a day but some companies aren't able to get any.
We are being told it could get really bad next week.
Not trying to do anything but give some information. Draw your own conclusions.

I still believe it's been the plan to hurt the country from the beginning.
Most of the world still runs on HSD 400 ppm diesel (that started out in the 1000's)we run on 10 ppm so the EPA could get catalytic converters on diesels.

 

[greybeard]

My twin brother was head of the transportation dept for Sheridan County Arkansas schools for nearly 20 years. (Just outside Little Rock)
I was up there enough to know almost all their bus routes were rural as well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

My twin brother was head of the transportation dept for Sheridan County Arkansas schools for nearly 20 years. (Just outside Little Rock)
I was up there enough to know almost all their bus routes were rural as well.

I have no clue how many buses are in this county, but a bunch.
Every school district here is rural and covers hundreds of square miles.

 

[jltrent]

Here is a break down of population so go figure.

About 46 million Americans live in the nation's rural counties, 175 million in its suburbs and small metros and about 98 million in its urban core counties.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

My wife is in charge of procurement, I see if I can find out how much the grants are for the electric busses. The local power company doesn't have the infrastructure to support them.

 

[greybeard]

Here is a break down of population so go figure.

About 46 million Americans live in the nation's rural counties, 175 million in its suburbs and small metros and about 98 million in its urban core counties.

That's misleading.
Even in the largest and most populous counties and cities, there are lots of rural bus routes. Houston metroplex (Greater Houston) covers all or parts of 9 counties, (over 10,000 sq miles) the largest being Harris County with right at 1,800 sq miles (all of Harris County is part of Hou Metro) That's enough space just in Harris County to fit the cities of Austin, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, New York City and Seattle with room to spare.

 

[simme]

There are many electric buses in this area. Proterra manufactures them in Greenville, SC (area is also home to the largest BMW factory in the world, Michelin US headquarters, and Clemson University's I-CAR campus. That is their International Center for Automotive Research).

Clemson Area Transit is the public transit provider for Clemson University and surrounding towns. My understanding is that they are the first transit company in the US to have electric buses account for more than 50% of their fleet. Been running them for several years now. Proterra is based in Silicon Valley with Greenville being their east coast manufacturing facility.

Proterra website is pretty interesting with battery technology and drive technology for heavy duty vehicles. Might be a stock to buy and hold.

Electric vehicles are much more energy efficient than combustion engines but will require way more electrical generation capacity than we have now. That amount of energy released from burning millions of barrels of fossil fuel will have to come from the power plug to the battery charger for electric vehicles. May also be time to look at investment in nuclear power as well. Takes a lot of energy to push a bus - whether it is corn fed to the mules, a guy shoveling coal, a big diesel tank, or a power cord. BTU's, joules, calories, HP, KW (however you measure energy) - Still takes the same amount of delivered energy to the wheels to move the bus regardless of the source. Find the lowest cost most acceptable source and maximize the efficiency.

How SC investors saved this electric bus company now going public - Hypepotamus

Back in 2010, Proterra was on the brink of financial ruin. “Greenville’s Gang of 13" was there to help with a new investment.

hypepotamus.com

Our Story | Proterra

Proterra is a leader in the design and manufacture of zero-emission transit vehicles, reducing costs and delivering clean, quiet transportation for all.

www.proterra.com

 

[Travlr]

School buses don't cost that much new, I can give you an exact figure later today when I get to work as we just purchased some new buses. They were ordered in the spring and were supposed to be delivered before school started, they're telling us February at the earliest now. They've been built and have been sitting on a lot waiting on some equipment to be installed for months now. We run Cummins diesels with Allison transmissions in all of our buses except one older one that has a rear engine CAT.

Well that changes the equation. I was thinking city buses, not school buses.

Still gotta wonder about how the figures work.

 

[hurleyjd]

Diesel Shortage Isn't Doomsday Scenario for U.S., Gas Expert Says

 

[hurleyjd]

Once upon a time Dallas Texas quit the street cars and went to electric buses. The power was taken from overhead lines that the buses connected to for their power. The buses could go anywhere and make turns and keep going. I guess the powers to be because the city was a magnet for oil companies the city decided to go to diesel buses.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Our Proterra bus mostly sits since it cant do the job with our hills around here.

 

[Travlr]

Our Proterra bus mostly sits since it cant do the job with our hills around here.

Is it that the bus hasn't enough torque to climb hills? Or is it that the battery doesn't last long enough?

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Is it that the bus hasn't enough torque to climb hills? Or is it that the battery doesn't last long enough?

I understand it's the charging and lack of a great system to charge it. I'll try to ask someone in the shop.

 

[greybeard]

Once upon a time Dallas Texas quit the street cars and went to electric buses. The power was taken from overhead lines that the buses connected to for their power. The buses could go anywhere and make turns and keep going. I guess the powers to be because the city was a magnet for oil companies the city decided to go to diesel buses.

look up Dallas Trolley buses. Dallas Railway and Terminal. The streetcars were electric too and ran on tracks but the electric trolley buses had tires and no tracks, but.. They could only go where the wires allowed them to and they had to have a turnaround at the end of their route.


http://www.trolleybuses.net/dal/dal.htm

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1203/dts1048.jpg

 

[rocfarm]

I live in the city. Would love for them to go all electric. Main reason is that it would be quieter and we'd have cleaner air. Noise pollution is not fun to be around.

Anybody know how much more electricity it'd take to run all of the vehicles in the US? Kindda important to the discussion…

 

[kdpihf]

After spending millions, TARC's downtown Louisville electric bus fleet sits idle

Mechanics lack the needed tools and training to make repairs.

www.wdrb.com