Did I do something wrong??

[bigbluegrass]

I had a calf that was right at a month old come down with scours. She was out of one of my better cows (naturally), a good milker and good mother. She raises the biggest calves every year and keeps in good condition doing it. The calf had very watery, grey runny scours. The scours smelled terrible. I watched the calf for a week and did some research. Seemed everything I read pretty much said just watch and see. Keep the calf hydrated. So I made sure the calf had access to water all the time and watched for another week. The calf was not getting better. Ears were down and it was hot. She was not nursing, since the cows udder was full all the time. Then the calf got on the wrong side of the fence. It took me and the wife a good hour to get the calf back over. We had to run it some (or maybe I should say it ran like a spooked deer for awhile) and it was pretty hot that day. It had been out a full 24 hours and momma was none too happy about it. Actually we got the calf in because I was pretty sure if we didn't, momma was going to go and get baby herself and I would spend some time fixing fence. So after the reunion, the calf sucked a little but nothing like I had expected. That evening I gave the calf a bolus of Sustain III. It was a big one and it didn't go down easy. I could feel a lump in the calfs throat that I don't think was there before. I tried to massage it down, but it wouldn't go. I figured the calf would gag or choke on it if it was lodged? I didn't see it laying in the pasture anywhere. Next day, no improvement. Next day, calf is dead. Should I have treated earlier? Maybe not treated at all? Maybe the bolus was lodged? Was the chasing too much for a dehydrated calf? I realize losses are expected, just looking to see what you all do.

One reason I ask is that I see some scours out in the pasture again and I am not sure who it belongs to. But if you see scours do you start treatment right away or do you wait and see. I am not talking about bucket calves or anything like that. These are cows on the range with calves by their side. I have not had any problems with scours in calves this old. I have seen it in a week old calves. It was a very wet spring and maybe there was some kind of bacteria growing in higher concentrations?

Your thoughts are appreciated :help:

 

[dun]

Just my opinion but I think you waited too long. A scouring calf in high temperatures is going to be stressed a lot more then a scoury calf in cooler temps. We hada calf last year that we IVed every day for a month before it just finally gave up. We tried every treatment (and straw grasping) imaginable and still lost it. Now we jump on scour problems as soon as we can figure out which one has them. They may recover without interventin but un-needed intervention is far better then not if they actually need it. I was really surprised at how well a shot of Restflor kicked the scours 99% of the time. Those may have been the ones that didn;t need anything but it sure perked them up and got them back to normal quickly

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

As said here often --> if you're going to have livestock, you're going to have dead stock

That being said, you did your best with the best you knew at the time and that's all a person can do.

For the next time, do some searching on here about scours, plenty of fine threads with good advice. Stress to a calf at any stage, particularly heat will only create or make scours worse. My abbreviated plan on scouring calves is this: treatment = nothing, IF the calf remains perky in ears, energy, and nursing... if the calf no longer is perky it becomes time to intervene, catch the bugger and hit it with Nuflor (prescription from vet) and tube it with scour-ease or something with proper follow up.

Sorry for your loss - sometimes there is no saving the little buggers.

 

[regolith]

I have never used meds for scours, aside from electrolyte therapy. All the official advice I know says meds aren't needed, other than to prevent secondary bacterial infection.

That said, on nearly every scour thread on these boards experienced farmers advise using medication. No doubt there's good reason for that.
So it's as davisbeefmasters says - you did what you could with what you knew.

If you can capture some fresh scours, it mightn't be a bad idea to get a sample to the vet so that if they can isolate a pathogen at least you know what you're dealing with.

 

[Amo]

As said here often --> if you're going to have livestock, you're going to have dead stock

That being said, you did your best with the best you knew at the time and that's all a person can do.

For the next time, do some searching on here about scours, plenty of fine threads with good advice. Stress to a calf at any stage, particularly heat will only create or make scours worse. My abbreviated plan on scouring calves is this: treatment = nothing, IF the calf remains perky in ears, energy, and nursing... if the calf no longer is perky it becomes time to intervene, catch the bugger and hit it with Nuflor (prescription from vet) and tube it with scour-ease or something with proper follow up.

Sorry for your loss - sometimes there is no saving the little buggers.

Thats pretty much how I do it as well. If its milk scours I really don't worry about it. Basicyly if I cant catch it then I leave it. If I can then I treat. I use to use Nuflor. Vet sugested Exceed. Kinda spendy, and you need to know where to put it (base of the ear on the back side) and it worked better than Nuflor...at least this year. Next year who knows.

I doubt it was logged. I don't know how well it would stay hydrated with a stock tank. If it wouldn't suck, I kinda doubt he would have much ambition to drink at the tank, but who knows.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Thanks everyone for your comments back. I guess I was reading all the wrong information. What I read was exactly what regolith said - no treatment was necessary, just keep an eye on it. Hydration is the main problem. Dun is right, the heat was a major problem in this case. Maybe in cooler weather she may have made it. Most of what I found on here was information on scours for bottle calves. I didn't read much on range calves. Getting fluids in a range calf is a bit harder and more stressful. I have never tubed a calf and I didn't want to start with one this size. She was a month old, and even the day before she died she was hard to catch and hold. She was a very stong calf and it is just me and the wife. I had a rough time getting the bolus down her. I can't imagine a tube and fluids. I think a shot of Nuflor or restflor is something I could have managed. I guess next time I need to catch it early for treatment.

Good news on the other calf with scours - it went away on its own. I never figured out who it was either. Whoever it was had it for a couple days. I never saw a dirty tail or anything. Just a few splats of whitish crap.

I guess the problem is if you just keep an eye on the calf and wait until it stops nursing, it is probably already too late for an effective treatment at that time. But if you treat early, you can be sure you get it, but you may not have needed to. I suppose Dun is right, better to waste the shot in this case than have a dead calf. Hard lessons to learn. I think in the future I will have the shot ready and give it early. Maybe give the calf a day or two on its own, and then hit it if it hasn't come around.

 

[Amo]

Get a drenching tube with a big end on the end that you put down the calf. That will make it go down the right "pipe" and not the lungs.

 

[regolith]

I guess the problem is if you just keep an eye on the calf and wait until it stops nursing, it is probably already too late for an effective treatment at that time.

That cow I had called Ghostie, that's pretty much what happened with her and her group (two dairy cows, six calves). I think it was rotavirus, but I'd been watching the dung, not quite happy with it or how much they were suckling, for a day or two. Then I went out to them in the evening and Ghostie was too weak to stand. She spent one day, two days, I can't even remember now, effectively dead. She just kept breathing so I tubed her with electrolytes every few hours till she came to life again.
None of them started scouring till that evening but the dung had turned pasty white nearly two days earlier.

 

[dun]

I guess the problem is if you just keep an eye on the calf and wait until it stops nursing, it is probably already too late for an effective treatment at that time.

That cow I had called Ghostie, that's pretty much what happened with her and her group (two dairy cows, six calves). I think it was rotavirus, but I'd been watching the dung, not quite happy with it or how much they were suckling, for a day or two. Then I went out to them in the evening and Ghostie was too weak to stand. She spent one day, two days, I can't even remember now, effectively dead. She just kept breathing so I tubed her with electrolytes every few hours till she came to life again.
None of them started scouring till that evening but the dung had turned pasty white nearly two days earlier.

The little heifer that we docotred for so long was posted. We had dumped so many antibiotics/electrolytes/etc. in her that they couldn;t get anything to grow in the cultures, couldn;t even get E Coli to grow.

 

[IL cow man]

Sometimes when you medicate calves too long it kills all of the good or so called beneficial bacteria in the gut. I'm not big on probiotics but they can help in that situation. I find the best thing to do with scouring calves is give them electrolytes. I still use nuflor 3 cc in mouth and 3 cc injection.

 

[dun]

Sometimes when you medicate calves too long it kills all of the good or so called beneficial bacteria in the gut. I'm not big on probiotics but they can help in that situation. I find the best thing to do with scouring calves is give them electrolytes. I still use nuflor 3 cc in mouth and 3 cc injection.

I blasted the heifer with probiotics twice a day from the beginning. Actually that's what I started treating her with.