Diary of One heck of a long weekend...

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mitchwi

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Wednesday got a call that one of my calves was breathing very heavy, went to the farm corraled and got him in the chute, slight temp gave Banamine and Nuflor... as of today, calf is doing excellent.

Went back home to get ready for Thanksgiving, all went well, everyone was well fed and happy.

Black Friday - got up at 2:30am to shower and head to my sisters to hit the sales... got some nice deals :D

Took a nap and headed to the farm...hubby was on call, so all farm chores fell on me, checked out hay situation, feed situation, checked on the calf I gave meds to on Wed - he looks good, checked the fencer... everything looking good.

Started checking other calves.... uh oh, find a big calf with bright red spots of blood on his back end... looks like he may be loose also for the amount of crap on tail and back end. Call the vet...

Vet says - wait another day, keep checking him, blood may be from a burst hemmoroid, or from diarhea, if on Sat you see more blood or he seems ill (as he doesn't at the moment) will come and check him out.

Check him a few more times on Friday til dark, and all seems well.

Sat am head to the farm first thing, check on #37 (butt problem calf) no blood that I can see, holding tail up a bit, still looks like he may be "loose".

Ran some errands, and went to grinding feed, mom came with me, as she doesn't like it when I am running equipment alone, (sweet lady). Pull grinder into lot and backup to steer stuffer, see #37 laying nearby, so I went to check on him... HOLY COW - got about 4 inches of rectal prolapse hanging out of him! Unload the feed, take mom home (as she has to work), call the vet en route to give him heads up and I'll call back when he's in the chute.

Get cattle in corral, seperated and got #37 locked up in the alley. Call the vet - he'll be there in hour to hour and a half... guess what? No more prolapse... UGH.

Feed hay to bull and heifers waiting for vet to arrive, last bale vet drives in, what great timing!

After Vet examines, says it's my call, surgery or no... I ask if it was his what would he do, he says he'd do it as I caught it early, and it may or may not happen again, probably caused by diarhea, give him some charcoal to help out his tum-tum, done with that, he gives me instruction on how to remove suture in about 2 to 3 weeks. Let him out and keep in penned for another hour til sedation wears off. Gives me instruction on things to keep an eye on of further problems. Check written vet leaves. By this time it is dark and I head out.

Sunday am, arrive at the farm and head out into pasture with calves to find #37, I start to walk by #73 who is laying down, I notice he's got slightly more than a runny nose, not dehydrated, breathing sounds fine, make note to check on him more. I get closer and he's watching me, but he doesn't get up, I get to him and actually give him a nudge and he gets up, stumbles and falls on top of me.. OUCH! He's struglling, I'm struggling, I get out and up and he's on all four, very unsteady, he's right near the corral gate, so I manuever him inside and kick out the few others that are in there, and lock the gate.... HOLY CRAP WHAT IS HAPPENING! I'm a bit shaken up, but I go back to check for the #37-butt problem, I find him and I am in fear there is more swelling that should be, looks to be better than a golf ball sized lump right under tail above butt-hole. Somehow I manage to get him in the corral also.

Call the vet - still shaking - UGH

Vet comes, butt problem is fine go to #73.

Temp is 105, vet listens and says some congestion in lungs, some in trach, gives banamine in vein, nuflor and a antiheistamine. We get the calf up so vet can check the unsteadyness... Either A) high fever causing it or B) possible menangitis or encephalitis or some type of brain stem swelling, either case, Nuflor is best.

Calf seems to be stumbling towards the right, or wanting to lean to the right, vet is checking while he is standing now, lungs, feeling around, etc, finds on his back on the left side, running down next to his spine the back muscle is hard as a rock, is wondering if calf was hurt in some way, but that would not account for high temp. Possibly pulled muscle from struggling to get up? Vet is a bit stumped, we talk for a bit, review calfs vacc's. Gives some instructions on further meds, what he is wanting to see the calf progress at, etc. Write the check, vet leaves.

Calf is standing, go do some chores, come back, calf is standing, do some more things, calf is down. Go over by him, and he struggles, but he gets up. Do some more things ( can ALWAYS find something to do) hour later calf is down, can't get him up, go to the house for a gun, end of story.

Called vet and left a message with the update.

Vet calls me this morning, and he talked with another vet about the situation, and asked me if blackleg vacc was given, yep it was.

He thinks he was correct with some type of brain swelling was the problem, (except for that hard back muscle has him puzzled) but for $1 a shot, perhaps another round of blackleg vacc would be in order.

Any opinions?

Michele
 
Opinions about what was wrong with #37 other than the prolapse? No.

Opinions about the vet? One or two.. :mad:

Alice
 
Any opinions you would like to share are welcome!

I would specifically like an opinion on re-vacc for blackleg and symptons of #73.

Michele
 
I think maybe you wrote him one too many checks...and, I would think, he would have been able to tell if it was blackleg right off the get go. But, now he's placed doubt in your mind about blackleg...who is he proposing do the vaccinations at a $1 a shot? And how many animals are you talking about. Was this calf bought recently at an auction? Does rectal prolapse precede blackleg? :shock:

I think he should've come out when you called the first time...I think he should've examined the calf a little better the first time he came...

Yeah, I know vets aren't magicians or seers, but the whole thing smells fishy...with a certain degree of CYA on the part of the vet.

Oh, unless you can find out if the blackleg vaccine had some sort of recall on it, or if you'd had an animal die of blackleg on your farm before, I'd leave the extra vaccination alone.

Just my feeble minded 2 cents worth...

Alice
 
I know I'm not the best writer, but I think you have the 2 confused Alice...

Let me explain a bit further....

#37 - Blood spot on back end, vet said wait another day, rectal prolapse, surgery, all is well with him at this point...

#73 - High fever, unsteady on legs, ultimate death, lead poisoning....
 
Alice":1iiy7qhc said:
I think maybe you wrote him one too many checks...and, I would think, he would have been able to tell if it was blackleg right off the get go. But, now he's placed doubt in your mind about blackleg...who is he proposing do the vaccinations at a $1 a shot?
me, cost of vacc only
And how many animals are you talking about.
15
Was this calf bought recently at an auction?
6 weeks ago
Does rectal prolapse precede blackleg? :shock:

I think he should've come out when you called the first time...I think he should've examined the calf a little better the first time he came...
confusion with 2 calves i think...see my other post

Yeah, I know vets aren't magicians or seers, but the whole thing smells fishy...with a certain degree of CYA on the part of the vet.

Oh, unless you can find out if the blackleg vaccine had some sort of recall on it, or if you'd had an animal die of blackleg on your farm before,
never
I'd leave the extra vaccination alone.

Just my feeble minded 2 cents worth...

Alice

Thanks for your input Alice, it is always the second guessing that gets me in trouble....[/b]
 
mitchwi":16k0kuip said:
I know I'm not the best writer, but I think you have the 2 confused Alice...

Let me explain a bit further....

#37 - Blood spot on back end, vet said wait another day, rectal prolapse, surgery, all is well with him at this point...

#73 - High fever, unsteady on legs, ultimate death, lead poisoning....

Oh, ok...see what I'm saying about my feeble mind? Yes, I definitely did get that confused! My bad...

Alice
 
You have more money to spend on vets than I do. With the cattle prices like they are now it is going to start getting tight. The market has already knocked about a hundred dollars plus off of them now. All inputs are too high.
 
feelnrite":227wtown said:
You have more money to spend on vets than I do. With the cattle prices like they are now it is going to start getting tight. The market has already knocked about a hundred dollars plus off of them now. All inputs are too high.

I never mentioned the cost.... if all inputs are too high, does that mean you'd rather have a dead calf than $15 worth of meds? Or maybe you are willing to cut out mineral supplements? What is too high? $1? $100?

I feel pretty lucky, we have an abundance of large animal vets, and I would consider their services reasonable, and I value them.
 
mitchwi":wf0z1gqg said:
Any opinions you would like to share are welcome!

I would specifically like an opinion on re-vacc for blackleg and symptons of #73.

Michele

How old is the calf?

Yes, a second round of blackleg is appropriate as the first shot can sometimes cause symtomatic problems of the desease you are vaccinating for, so the second vac is called for to counter the symptoms. Kinda sounded like blackleg symptoms, but you didn't mention bloat which can be associated with blackleg, and the calf should have died fairly quick if it was that far progressed.

The unbalance and turning to the right sounds like mineral deficiency to me...like magnesium. Give electrolytes, and a B12 complex. Could be menangitis or encephalitis though. :?:
 
mitchwi":nsb8zvbr said:
I feel pretty lucky, we have an abundance of large animal vets, and I would consider their services reasonable, and I value them.

Well said, your vet doesn't have to be a large animal vet, and if he was a cheque taker he coulda bumped you up a couple on these two I wager.

Did you consider a post? Or mention it to the vet? Probably a good idea if you have another, depending on your numbers.

Sure sounds like the lead injection was well timed as well. Tough to do but you gotta know when to draw the line. Wish I could help more.
 
1848":2peznh3u said:
mitchwi":2peznh3u said:
Any opinions you would like to share are welcome!

I would specifically like an opinion on re-vacc for blackleg and symptons of #73.

Michele

How old is the calf?
7 months, 600 pounds

Yes, a second round of blackleg is appropriate as the first shot can sometimes cause symtomatic problems of the desease you are vaccinating for, so the second vac is called for to counter the symptoms. Kinda sounded like blackleg symptoms, but you didn't mention bloat
no bloat problems
which can be associated with blackleg, and the calf should have died fairly quick if it was that far progressed.

Encountered the calf about 8 am, vet was there by 10am, calf was put down at 3:30 pm

The unbalance and turning to the right sounds like mineral deficiency to me...like magnesium.
calves have mineral and vitamins mixed in with the grain...i've never had a deficiency like that, not saying that couldn't have been it tho
Give electrolytes, and a B12 complex.
I will keep this in mind for next time
Could be menangitis or encephalitis though. :?:
the vet is still sticking by this...
 
AngusLimoX":3w1in7qm said:
Did you consider a post? Or mention it to the vet? Probably a good idea if you have another, depending on your numbers.

I did think of it, vet wasn't around at TOD, but that was my thought, if I have another with same symptoms, will definately have one done.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2mv83dhn said:
Rough holiday weekend - sounds like you & vet did a good job. I do wonder why vet didn't do autopsy. Can't they tell if it's blackleg??
If in doubt, yes I would revaccinate.

The back muscle on the left side was hard, not the crunchy, I also checked inside of back legs, no crunchy muscles there either.

Funny thing is I talked to my mom about the whole situation..
...left back muscle hard
...turning towards the right
...everytime down it was on the left side
...she's agreeing with the vet and something "neurological" (sp?) perhaps resulting in a stroke of some sort...
 
mitchwi":1wcrupc1 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1wcrupc1 said:
Rough holiday weekend - sounds like you & vet did a good job. I do wonder why vet didn't do autopsy. Can't they tell if it's blackleg??
If in doubt, yes I would revaccinate.

The back muscle on the left side was hard, not the crunchy, I also checked inside of back legs, no crunchy muscles there either.

Funny thing is I talked to my mom about the whole situation..
...left back muscle hard
...turning towards the right
...everytime down it was on the left side
...she's agreeing with the vet and something "neurological" (sp?) perhaps resulting in a stroke of some sort...

Considering the temp on that calf I'd go with some type of neurological problem caused by the temp.
 

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