creep feeding????

[ronr]

Hello!! This is my first time posting on this site. I'm from Eastern Ia. I love this site! I'm a small producer who still bucket feed my small calve till they are around 750lbs and then start pushing them. Once I get them to full feed I put them on self feeder. This has been working out fine for my operation. I don't have the numbers to buy a TMR $$$. I Creep my calves with mix feeling. My weaning weights are great but they can get a bit fleshy. With Genetic improvements my larger framed cattle are weaning the kind of calves I like to see. This works on the right kind of cattle here.

I would like to know from people around the Country their thoughts on Creep feeding. We use a Corn Gluten/Corn ration with some extra's.

 

[Scotty]

If you need to help the cows and it is economical creep feed them. Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Ass'n has written many articles on the subject. You might ry their website for more info. not getting them to fat is the key. Fat calves IMO go grow as well.


Scotty

 

[Crowderfarms]

Hello!! This is my first time posting on this site. I'm from Eastern Ia. I love this site! I'm a small producer who still bucket feed my small calve till they are around 750lbs and then start pushing them. Once I get them to full feed I put them on self feeder. This has been working out fine for my operation. I don't have the numbers to buy a TMR $$$. I Creep my calves with mix feeling. My weaning weights are great but they can get a bit fleshy. With Genetic improvements my larger framed cattle are weaning the kind of calves I like to see. This works on the right kind of cattle here.

I would like to know from people around the Country their thoughts on Creep feeding. We use a Corn Gluten/Corn ration with some extra's.

This may sound crazy, but I bought a Creep feeder 2 years ago, and am yet to use it. Seems the Cows are doing their job, raising good Calves. I may try it during our next calf crop, just to see if there really is a difference.

 

[dun]

The only folks in these parts that I know that creep feed and think it's worthwhile are some seedstock producers and a guy that owns a feedmill.

dun

 

[rk]

I'm wondering why it wouldn't be cost-effective. Even if creep costs $6.00/bag, that's .12/lb. Even if conversion is 6:1, that makes the cost of gain .72. Sale price for calves is more than .72. Seems to me like it would pay to creep???

 

[stocky]

I pay 3.00 per 50 lb bag of pellet 13 percent creep feed and the 650 lb calves I sold last week brought 1.22 on the steers and 1.17 on the heifers. These calves were out of some old, cheap cows I bought, now I will weigh the cows out the first of March when the slaughter market is higher. I also creep feed all the calves on my permanent cattle. I feel every pound you can put on with that kind of feed/calf price ratio you are making money. Almost everyone in my area creep feeds to get the calves larger and not drag the cow down as much. The cows perform much better and last more years. If the grain goes to 7 dollars per bag and the calves to 70 cents, forget the creep feeding. It is all about making money off of the creep feed.

 

[tom4018]

I heard the figure 7 lbs. grain to 1 lb. of gain somewhere. The mix we creep costs us about $7.50 a hundred and I add a litle salt to limit it. Been doing it the last 2 years and it seems to pay, but if they go down it may not pay.

 

[rk]

I think you have the right idea with limiting. Usually, calves under 400 or so won't eat more than 4-5 lbs, unless cows stressed and not milking much. After 400 lbs, they can really chow, and then conversion gets pretty poor. If you can limit to about 1-1.25% of bodyweight, conversions will most likely be pretty good, at least under 7. Salt or other commercial limiters can help do this and make creep a pretty good investment. My .02. rk

 

[ronr]

I'm glad to see people's different opinion on this subject. Last year it paid huge for me. We were in a Drought here in Eastern Ia. last year. I had to Hay my Cows for much of July and August. I did go thru a bit more Creep but not to the extent you would think. Starting last year I started to Worm my cow's and calves in first part of July. I also have a late summer herd that I worm in October. I'm seeing the same results in both herds. The Weaning Wts. are up and the Cow's Condition is much better.

I don't see Creeping as a way to subsidize poor milking Genetic's. Rather a way let that calf reach it's Genitic potential.

One other thought...I'm getting short on Hay this Winter because of the Drought. Bringing my Cows into the winter in better shape has reduced my feeding needs. Now if I can just keep that dang Snow off the Ground!!

 

[Z&J Cattle]

I can't say whether or not it is helping the calves (or the cows) because we just pulled the creep feeder that was on the farm when we bought it this year out of the weeds a few weeks ago and started using it. But, I know it will be profitable because I get the feed for free! 8) My grandfather runs about 500 feeder calves on his farm and he lets me get feed from his supply at no charge. Heck, it is not even a noticable amount for our few calves considering the amount that he goes through in a given time. But, like I said, it is free so it will have to be profitable. They don't seem to be tearing it up really though. We have 12 calves on the ground ranging from 200-500# and in the last two weeks they have eaten less than 100# out of it. Maybe the really small guys aren't using it yet at all.

Zach

 

[norriscathy]

Because of the drought we started creeping our calves last week. Trying to take some pressure off the cows and get the calves ready for an early weaning.

 

[bullred]

I'm wondering why it wouldn't be cost-effective. Even if creep costs $6.00/bag, that's .12/lb. Even if conversion is 6:1, that makes the cost of gain .72. Sale price for calves is more than .72. Seems to me like it would pay to creep???

I think a 6:1 conversion rate is pretty optimistic. A more conservative estimate would be 10:1 or higher. Not saying that it's not profitable, even at those numbers, just not as big a windfall.

A lot of people have the notion that creeping takes a load off the cow. That's not necessarily true. A calf is generally going to take all the milk the cow will give first, then if they are still hungry they will go looking for other things (feed or forage). What creep feeding does is lighten the load on the available forage. That's why creep feeding during drought conditions like we have here now becomes more viable.

I think it's been mentioned before, but it bears repeating. If you are culling and improving your cow herd based on lbs. of calf weaned per cow (which profitable cow/calf producers should be doing) that determination gets fuzzier if creep feeding. It makes it very hard to judge a cows milking ability.

In my opinion (and it's only an opinion) you should look at creep feeding as an alternative to adjusting your stocking rate in less ideal conditions. And don't let it compensate for cows that aren't doing their job, which is to produce a good-sized weaned calf every year.

 

[rk]

norriscathy,

I think you're right about creep feed not necessarily taking the load off the cow. I do feel like 6:1 is a more than realistic figure, provided it's a good quality creep feed and calves are not allowed to overconsume???

 

[stocky]

I would, respectfully, disagree about the creep feeding not helping the cow. When there is no creep feed, especially if it is dry or during the winter, the calf will constantly be trying to get milk from the cow, even when there is no milk. When there is creep, the calf will go to the creep feeder and not constantly be hounding the cow while she is trying to eat. When a calf wants to eat, if there is creep feed, it will go to the creep feeder at times, instead of running around the pasture looking for it's mother every time. The help for the cow may be overestimated, but I do believe it helps her

 

[rk]

I think that's what bullred is saying.

 

[stocky]

RK, you may be right, I understood Bullred to be saying that the creep eases the pressure on the available forage, my point was that the creep eases the pressure of the calf constantly hounding the cow even when she has no milk, which is hard on her with a big calf hunching an empty udder and also disturbs her feeding time when forage is short and she has to spend more time searching for food in a drought

 

[ronr]

In regards to the subject of creep taking up the slack of a poor milking Cow...I think it will still show up at Weaning. Even with the Creep if she is a poor milker that calf will have a smaller weaning wt. compared to the rest of the herd. Get rid of the cow!

 

[norriscathy]

In regards to the subject of creep taking up the slack of a poor milking Cow...I think it will still show up at Weaning. Even with the Creep if she is a poor milker that calf will have a smaller weaning wt. compared to the rest of the herd. Get rid of the cow!

Not when you've had less than a third your normal rain fall and are struggling just to keep every going.

 

[dun]

If the forage is poor enough that you're worried about the cows and even with creep they're being sucked down, it's time to cull a lot deeper. Thinning theherd is proably the hardest part of drought, but it's also the surest way of not permanently damaging the pastures. Unless you have plenty of free hay, cut back below were you really want to and rebuild after normal conditions return.

dun

 

[bullred]

RK, you may be right, I understood Bullred to be saying that the creep eases the pressure on the available forage, my point was that the creep eases the pressure of the calf constantly hounding the cow even when she has no milk, which is hard on her with a big calf hunching an empty udder and also disturbs her feeding time when forage is short and she has to spend more time searching for food in a drought

Stocky, I think we're both heading in the same direction. What I'm saying is that a lot of people I've talked to have the notion that if creep feeding calves, the cows will be required to produce less milk. That's not the case. The cow's still going to produce the same amount of milk, and the calf's going to take all they'll produce, then go looking for something else if they still are hungry. But I agree with you, that if there's something else there for them they'll be less likely to keep coming back to the dry udder of a cow that's trying to graze.