Cows that are poor milk producers, what to do?

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whitewing

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I've got a few animals that drop nice looking calves and then don't produce enough milk to really give them the start that they need. The calves end up looking crappy and malnourished because, well, because they're malnourished I'd imagine. :oops:

Any solutions to a problem like this....aside from the sale barn, that is. :D
 
certainly......

well placed and well stocked creep feeders will mask this problem indefinitely.

OR

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.
 
pdfangus":2s8k4mri said:
certainly......

well placed and well stocked creep feeders will mask this problem indefinitely.

OR

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.
:nod: creep feeders will only mask the problem.
 
pdfangus":188hjpi3 said:
certainly......

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.

Sound advice and I'm going to accept it. I've been too kind for too long with some of these animals. :)
 
whitewing":3c0a28w8 said:
pdfangus":3c0a28w8 said:
certainly......

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.

Sound advice and I'm going to accept it. I've been too kind for too long with some of these animals. :)
This is different then small calves that don;t grow well as alluded to in your other post. A potty calf is jsut a poor producing cow, a smallish calf that is getting enough to eat is the calf genetics deal
 
dun":27dymrdq said:
whitewing":27dymrdq said:
pdfangus":27dymrdq said:
certainly......

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.

Sound advice and I'm going to accept it. I've been too kind for too long with some of these animals. :)
This is different then small calves that don;t grow well as alluded to in your other post. A potty calf is jsut a poor producing cow, a smallish calf that is getting enough to eat is the calf genetics deal

Indeed. Which is why I wanted a different thread. The low birth weight animal I mentioned in the other thread was an anomoly. I do have a few cows though that consistently seem to birth decent-looking calves only to have them lag others in growth. The problem seems to be more closely related to milk production (or lack thereof) in this case.
 
I recently kept 2 calves from the same cow (1 year apart)... excellent cow, raises great calves... but her heifers just don't cut it, one had her first calf this spring and it may well have died without additional milk for the first couple weeks, and the other will calf this spring, and i'm not optimistic... the only reason I didn't ship both of them is that I have enough feed for them and we got an outrageous price for the tiny guys, so despite the fact that this steer was 340 lbs rather than the average of 600, we got 1.70 /lb for him, which makes up for the weight difference to an extent.. as soon as I have nice heifers to replace them they're going in the freezer, and I'm not keeping any more calves from that cow (this year she raised a pair of 450lb twins), but I will keep her

as for creep feeding, i have a high electric fence wire (~40" off ground) with some nice 3rd cut hay that the youngsters can go nibble on...
 
Nesikep":39g4qriy said:
as for creep feeding, i have a high electric fence wire (~40" off ground) with some nice 3rd cut hay that the youngsters can go nibble on...
We refer to that as "forward grazing"
 
pdfangus":151shnel said:
Isomade....

Suggest you reread my post.....

that is exactly what I said.
PDF, note the nodding headed smiley face to begin my post. This is to indicate that I agree with your post completely. In other words, I couldn't AGREE MORE. ;-)
 
pdfangus":2ha2imex said:
certainly......

well placed and well stocked creep feeders will mask this problem indefinitely.

OR

bite the bullet.....
sell free loaders and under achievers at every weaning......
keep as replacements the top ten to twenty five percent of your heifer calves.....animals that performed in your environment.....
use the best bulls you can afford......
cull non breeders after a defined breeding season......
In a suprisingly short time your problems will begin to diminish and your production will improve.

Exactly! I was just going to say Cull but pdfangus you nailed it!
 
Isomade":2utwtfoe said:
pdfangus":2utwtfoe said:
Isomade....

Suggest you reread my post.....

that is exactly what I said.
PDF, note the nodding headed smiley face to begin my post. This is to indicate that I agree with your post completely. In other words, I couldn't AGREE MORE. ;-)


:cowboy: I did see the smiley but was not sure.

thanks for the endorsement and I will try to exercise more restraint on the typing finger.
 
Nesikep":acbyyog4 said:
I recently kept 2 calves from the same cow (1 year apart)... excellent cow, raises great calves... but her heifers just don't cut it,one had her first calf this spring and it may well have died without additional milk for the first couple weeks, and the other will calf this spring, and i'm not optimistic... the only reason I didn't ship both of them is that I have enough feed for them and we got an outrageous price for the tiny guys, so despite the fact that this steer was 340 lbs rather than the average of 600, we got 1.70 /lb for him, which makes up for the weight difference to an extent.. as soon as I have nice heifers to replace them they're going in the freezer, and I'm not keeping any more calves from that cow


What you say (outlined in red) makes sense. However, best laid plans and all....prices rise and fall at the drop of a hat these days. Experience has taught all Canadian farmers this since 2003. As well, one year of great feed is good but the next could very well be in the dumps due to drought or flooding. Keeping poor doers might seem great for the short term, but in the long run they cost us more money. The illusion that the selling price is good is just that, and illusion. What about the additional costs of feed supplementing. That comes off the top, adds to the cost of upkeep. Right now heifer and good quality cow prices are up and a good price. Instead of feeding all winter, might be a good idea to sell these heifers and buy some good quality genetics, or add the $ to the farm allowing a couple more replacements more quickly.

Now to the second point, outlined in green. Two reasons (could be more) but two that i know of, as to why a heifer fails from a good quality cow is
1. Throw back to previous genetics...a grandma or great grandma and for that matter even the papa.
2. Over feeding the heifers after weaning. This is a big one which we can overlook. Good condition heifers pre breeding is good. Over conditioned heifers can be bad and costly to a farm or ranch. Calves which get over conditioned will put the $ into themselves rather than the calf. They will maintain a good BCS at the expense of her calf. Milk production will go down right from the get go. They will in time have difficulty calving due to the over conditioning...to much fat. These cows will not be able to maintain a scheduled breeding cycle either. The will get later and later each year. They will consume more hay and grass and that in itself costs $ because they will not be good feed converters.
On the opposite end is a heifer who can not maintain her body condition no matter what you do. She eats mamoth amounts, her body structure is lean and thin. Her second and third breeding seasons are showing up consectively later, and inorder to produce a healthy, chunky calf, this momma has to get extra groceries to get her up to par pre calving and possibly some more extra groceries post calving in hopes she can maintain that calf and not loose any more weight.
The calf in both senarios needs extra nourishment. The calf will either get the nourishment in the form of a bottle or from another cow who can not afford to give it up (stealing).
and this brings me to the third point which just thought of now as writing the last sentence.

3. It migh not be the heifer who could not produce the milk. It could be she lets either other calves steal from her or there was a cow in the herd who likes milk later on in life. Both not good senarios since if the heifer is letting the milk get stollen, good chances the animals stole the colostrum too.

To wrap up this book of a post, poor doers are never ok to keep just because. There are so many variables which we can not see that hit us along the way. It is in the good times we need to save for that rainy day which WILL come. It is just a matter of time. Put the time and $ into good quality and kick out the ones who eat the costly hay and grass and give little in return. That $ amount at sale day is just an illusion of making money. Add up the costs of those poor keepers and you will find that hole was alittle bigger than you thought.
...voice of experience...
 
well, as for having plenty o feed this year, as compared to others, we have a pretty good handle on irrigation, etc, and aren't subject to droughts and floods, so the feed supply is steady, we can in fact reliably handle more

as for throwback genetics... it must be from a great great grandmother somewhere.. the line has always been good to us and they're about the 4th or 5th generation.. meanwhile, their mother's fullblood sister has had productive heifer calves... I'm certain there's no milk theft from the heifer in question, she was kept separate for quite some time

Overfeeding heifers.. I haven't ever seen a problem with that, we do find that through the winter our cows really don't need much food, but we would like to arrange that the first calvers get a bit more.. once they calf, they get much more, and as heifer calves after weaning, I feed them as much as they'll clean up of the best hay I have... last year it was 1/4 bale each a day, and they did well on it.. the previous yera we hadn't planned on breeding at 1 year (we were doing 2nd year breeding) and changed our mind at the last minute, so they heifers weren't fed as much or as good a quality feed leading up to breeding.. that's what happens when your plans change.. both the heifers in question will end up in the freezer or sale barn.. we also have a bunch of old cows which are coming up to cull, but they're all producing well.. one is always the last to calf, but she does it in time to make a 550 lb calf by weaning time.. so I'll tolerate it
 
whitewing":28763v41 said:
I've got a few animals that drop nice looking calves and then don't produce enough milk to really give them the start that they need. The calves end up looking crappy and malnourished because, well, because they're malnourished I'd imagine. :oops: Any solutions to a problem like this....aside from the sale barn, that is. :D

The other way to hide this is weaning early... I do just the opposite, and there is quite a bit of change in who the top replacement candidates over time.
 
I could see how making the decision of which heifers you want to keep being moved earlier as being beneficial maybe, but I don't see how weaning your replacement heifer early could help you
 
I have always been told by older successful cattlemen and women( mother-in-law) that Heifers don't always grow good calves the first time. I keep replacements from good cows and try to follow their genetics back and keep only the very best from there. But sometimes my heifers don't do well. I give them the second year (if I have the grass) to prove themselves. Bad calf the next year and they go. Good or bad? what are your alls thoughts?
 
hillbillycwo":b04ilkms said:
I have always been told by older successful cattlemen and women( mother-in-law) that Heifers don't always grow good calves the first time. I keep replacements from good cows and try to follow their genetics back and keep only the very best from there. But sometimes my heifers don't do well. I give them the second year (if I have the grass) to prove themselves. Bad calf the next year and they go. Good or bad? what are your alls thoughts?
I am in agreement on the hfr deal I want her to grow her calf and keep growing and grow a calf inside of her
I figure her calves will be in the bottom 10% of the herd and if they do better than that then I am very pleased
I also WON't cull a cow because she has 1 low weight or unthrifty calf because environment and bull selections plays into it and I make sure to change bulls on her the next breeding season but if she has 2 in a row then she goes to town
for instance I have a cow now that I have kept replacement hfrs from 2 yrs in a row and this yr her hfr was a dink but the calf she has on the ground now is doing fine and looking good this cow has always thrown hfrs also
 
There is, to me anywy, a difference between a small calf/dink and a calf that is unthrifty and potty. The former I'll let slide the second they need to find another home.
 
hillbillycwo":1s09sy3z said:
I have always been told by older successful cattlemen and women( mother-in-law) that Heifers don't always grow good calves the first time. I keep replacements from good cows and try to follow their genetics back and keep only the very best from there. But sometimes my heifers don't do well. I give them the second year (if I have the grass) to prove themselves. Bad calf the next year and they go. Good or bad? what are your alls thoughts?

I've kept three heifers out of what I consider my very best cow. The dam has the best udder in the pasture for a beef cow. The heifers she produces do not have enough milk. Everything coming out of that best cow is now terminal.

I have heard that too much fat in a heifer calf can interfere with development. That may be the case here.

As far as any of the others in the herd, a cow that cannot produce a top quality calf cannot stay. You're money ahead to replace that cow.
 
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