I just had a casual conversation with a local farmer about my cows being later than i would like with calving; he said that some cows won't breed back, especially not their first heat cycle or two, if they are with their calf. I had heard that might sometimes happen with a heifer after her first calf, but not with a seasoned cow. is there any truth to this?
Cows breeding while with calf
- Thread starter herofan
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
JMJ Farms
Well-known member
It's definitely true. I've got some cows that will breed on their first cycle after they have a calf. I HAD some that wouldn't breed back until you weaned their calf and they would be in good body condition. They caught the wagon to town. As far as why... I don't know. I just know I ain't feeding her if she don't have a calf but every 18 months.
Aaron
Well-known member
herofan":1lj2882f said:
It's the result of long-term management based on fertility. Some guys can get them bred in two, or even one cycle, and have very high conception rates; other guys will have their cows getting bred after 10 cycles and they calve throughout the year.
Simplest change you can implement to improve herd fertility is to have a defined breeding season and culling those that don't conceive in that time frame. Doesn't matter if it is 50 or 150 days, just not 365.
JMJ Farms
Well-known member
Aaron":3rscivda said:
I agree based on my observations. The majority of the ones I had issues with were either 1) Older cows. 2) Cows from a herd that I bought that had not been taken care of as I think they should have been.
Now I cull pretty heavy and I have some cows that routinely calve every ten months. (I just went to a controlled breeding system) I save every heifer that these "10 month" cows have.
You might look at your mineral program. If your trying to breed in the spring, you might look at supplementing the month of March, and the first half of April. Cows can come out winter pretty rugged here in Ky. For about 70-80 cents a day in feed, you can really boost conception rates.
Supa Dexta
Well-known member
Some guys - if they're set up to do so - will remove the calves during the day for the 2 or 3 weeks before bull turn out. They let them nurse morning and night, but are kept away otherwise. The time away from the mother, and not constant nursing will signal her to return to heat, and you can tighten up calving intervals.
Ozark cowman
Active member
I would expect them all to breed back. even on heifers if I leave a bull with them year round my calving will be a month earlier each time. Some cows even quicker.herofan":3fj8mi59 said:
OP
OP
herofan
Well-known member
It appears we have various opinions. For those that believe the cows should breed back in a timely manner with calf, even a month early each season, what would you suggest causes cows to not breed back in a timely manner? Is it usually just poor body condition?
Muddy
Well-known member
Hard birth, poor bcs, bull's fertility etc....herofan":27s9nrgq said:
Ozark cowman
Active member
I don't know for sure, I think it's more that some cows just aren't good breeders. I feed a lot of hay, range cubes and now a ddg mix that Denver turned me on to, I also keep crystalix tubs out year round and my cows do breed back fast. But then there's people like Denver who run cows up in the hills in the brush and rough pasture, he doesn't feed much hay till it snows and just feeds them enough grain to keep them coming in, I do believe he keeps the tubs out though and his will breed as fast or better than mine.herofan":1douz95w said:
OP
OP
herofan
Well-known member
Ozark cowman":s6axxj5n said:
I've heard of the tubs, but never used them. Are these tubs in addition to loose mineral, or does it take the place of it? What size tubs do they come in, and what size would best serve 20 cows, and how long would the tub typically last? Should the tubs be sheltered from the weather?
So, it appears that some cows may not breed back in a timely manner if they are with calf, but it's usually due to lack of minerals, poor body condition, poor fertility with bull/co,etc. In other words, there is a reason, it's not just something i have to accept as the norm. Is that correct?
Ozark cowman
Active member
Tubs are 200lbs, 20 cows will go through one in about a month, maybe a little longer. I've never fed loose mineral, I feed tubs and some salt mix. There's slot of difference in tubs, you want a good one like a crystalix, they will cost about 80 or 90$, I feed the 20% fescue hi mag tub year round.
Give us a few more details
Are you running a bull year round?
Are you recording calf births, and then observing for heat?
Are cows cycling, and not breeding, or just not cycling?
Ratio of cows to Bulls?
Are you testing your hay?
I'm guessing commercial cows, what cross?
Me personally, I'll let a cow 13 months between calves, but not longer. If she consistently goes over, she's gone. 6 or 7 cows go a month or two over, is the equivalent of losing one calf.
Are you running a bull year round?
Are you recording calf births, and then observing for heat?
Are cows cycling, and not breeding, or just not cycling?
Ratio of cows to Bulls?
Are you testing your hay?
I'm guessing commercial cows, what cross?
Me personally, I'll let a cow 13 months between calves, but not longer. If she consistently goes over, she's gone. 6 or 7 cows go a month or two over, is the equivalent of losing one calf.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
I certainly would not except it as the norm. Like OC said, I have cows in some places that's condition is a little embarrassing and yet they will calve every 11 months. Use to I never fed hardly any grain and less hay than what they would like, but I have always kept tubs out. I've started feeding a little more just to help the cows, but I haven't seen any difference in breeding. I'm like Bigfoot, I won't keep a cow that won't calve every 13 months, but that's never been much of a problem for me because most calve sooner. If you know you have a good bull and your cows aren't in really bad condition then it's most likely the cows fault, most people will tell you that they cull slow breeders.
herofan":2ii9vtwe said:
There are a ton of questions here.
1. tubs vs loose mineral has been cussed and discussed over and over on these boards - there's a thread going on right now. don't need both.
2. tubs can stay out in the weather but most tubs need salt as well as they don't contain it.
3. tubs last till the cows eat it which is based on their needs, their feed, and some would say their boredom
4. there may be reasons that cows don't breed back that may be associated with nutrient needs - whether feed or mineral (some may argue the mineral). their overall body condition and fertility with the bull are two big possibilities.
5. most would say you should NEVER accept poor fertility as a norm but some may
6. that said, part of the fertility issue may also just be the COW herself regardless of how you treat her. then it WILL be the NORM for her and potentially her gene pool but whether or not you accept that in your herd is up to you.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
I think number 6 is the point I was trying to make.angus9259":30y4byri said:
