Club calf. Added new one, Plus one more

[3waycross]

Here's another one I am considering. He's a lot cleaner kind of calf. Longer and I think a lot better shoulders. He doesn't show it as much in the pics as I would like but he has plenty of butt on him. First picture is from about 30 days ago. Second one is today He's a March calf.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

I do like the second calf alot better.

 

[Snider_Angus]

I too like the second one, I would like to clean his front end up just a tick and put a little more bone under him and drop him down in his flank, but thats being picky. he is alright.

 

[hillsdown]

OK showing beef is not my forte but. The tan one looks like he has the capacity to be a monster steer when fed out. He looks like he will gain easily and fill out very well, As was said his top line is not a clean as your blk steer that just one, but I tend to agree with my across the pond friends, he's a steer and his main goal is to be butchered after showing BUT if what is true about your shows and judges they may dock him. Also how does tan show in your area, are they blk worshippers there as well ? He would show very well here, we are not biased when it comes to great animals. Even grey ones take 1st here sometimes.

The second calf is way flashier, top line just about perfect, but does not look like he has the capacity as the first one. I do like him though.

So there you have it, I have no clue. :lol2: And after your winner I think you will pick the right one for her and she will take it from there and put him in the winners circle again.

 

[CKC1586]

HD, I think you hit it right on the ol nail. I am thinking that if the first calf were black or red the comments may be different...... :?:

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

The last one looks a smoother steer but I agree with HD, he doesn't look like he has the capacity. I can't see a rear or front shot but he doesn't look as thick as the cream steer. I think after 3 months in a feedlot type situation people would be amazed with that cream coloured steer.

 

[3waycross]

The last one looks a smoother steer but I agree with HD, he doesn't look like he has the capacity. I can't see a rear or front shot but he doesn't look as thick as the cream steer. I think after 3 months in a feedlot type situation people would be amazed with that cream coloured steer.

Took my Dad out to see the calves tonight. He looked at that cream calf and just rolled his eyes and said that's as good a calf as he's seen. However he also thought the brockle faced one might just show better. For the record my partner has a solid red calf that might be better than both of them. Which is OK since we need to come up with 3 this year, and maybe more.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

The last one looks a smoother steer but I agree with HD, he doesn't look like he has the capacity. I can't see a rear or front shot but he doesn't look as thick as the cream steer. I think after 3 months in a feedlot type situation people would be amazed with that cream coloured steer.

Took my Dad out to see the calves tonight. He looked at that cream calf and just rolled his eyes and said that's as good a calf as he's seen. However he also thought the brockle faced one might just show better. For the record my partner has a solid red calf that might be better than both of them. Which is OK since we need to come up with 3 this year, and maybe more.

I only say because I have fed up steers similar to the red one and they never really "exploded" in terms of growth, you know they still muscled out but never had the thickness of some of the others. I think the red calf is better structured and as mentioned that may be better for the club calf circuit. The cream calf has more potential to as HD said "become a monster" but lacks show standard confirmation. Maybe the solid red calf will be better.

I just saw the university's led steer and heifer team on wednesday and saw a few different things. Looks like we'll get left with the 'crazy little heifer' which has only been handled a few times, only just was taken off her mum and is stunning for her age. Fortunately the older people who get to pick first seem to be blinded by size and I don't think they have been taught much about capacity... I saw one thick muscled steer who's feet were no joke, about 4 inches apart, and he's still got 2 months on hard feed to go before the show. I'll try and get some photos later.

 

[3waycross]

OK this is the last one. He's is my partners calf, out of a good Shorthorn cow and the RA bull.
I think he's a dandy.

 

[Keren]

The last one looks a smoother steer but I agree with HD, he doesn't look like he has the capacity. I can't see a rear or front shot but he doesn't look as thick as the cream steer. I think after 3 months in a feedlot type situation and a good clip jobpeople would be amazed with that cream coloured steer.

:nod:

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

This is true Keren. :lol: I am pretty sure I already blabbered onto you about the clip job that made the steer go from cow hocked to normal. I'm still amazed now :dunce:

I like the shorthorn X. He does look to have that capacity you need and even though he is framey he appears to be showing some growth. I can't see a lot but he also appears to be structurally ok. Out of the 3 I think the last one has the balance of capacity, growth and confirmation you will need. You know like goldilocks and the 3 bears, too hot, too cold, juuuuust right.

 

[CKC1586]

OK this is the last one. He's is my partners calf, out of a good Shorthorn cow and the RA bull.
I think he's a dandy.

Oh my, not a really great picture but oh my yes a dandy indeed.... :nod:

 

[phillse]

Oh man, it kills me that you guys are looking for structural soundness in a steer!

Livestock Judging has a fair amount of variability in it. Each Judge has their own opinions about what is important. Some Judges place more emphasis on structure, some on muscle and some are in the middle.

When Judging steers, I do place considerable emphasis on structure, because remeber for every steer that wins there is a sister back home that will go into production. However, I do not judge prospect steer show and teminal steer shows with equal emphasis on structure. At a prospect show, the steer has more growing to do and structure is very important. I do not want a champion steer that will break down before the terminal show. At a terminal show the animal is going to cross the rainbow in a matter of days, and I am not as concerned with structural correctness. The steer still has to be able to walk but structure is not as important as muscle, and finish. The steer has made it to his destination.

Maybe that will help some of you guys out there, with seeing differences in prospect show placing and terminal show placings.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Oh man, it kills me that you guys are looking for structural soundness in a steer!

Livestock Judging has a fair amount of variability in it. Each Judge has their own opinions about what is important. Some Judges place more emphasis on structure, some on muscle and some are in the middle.

When Judging steers, I do place considerable emphasis on structure, because remeber for every steer that wins there is a sister back home that will go into production. However, I do not judge prospect steer show and teminal steer shows with equal emphasis on structure. At a prospect show, the steer has more growing to do and structure is very important. I do not want a champion steer that will break down before the terminal show. At a terminal show the animal is going to cross the rainbow in a matter of days, and I am not as concerned with structural correctness. The steer still has to be able to walk but structure is not as important as muscle, and finish. The steer has made it to his destination.

Maybe that will help some of you guys out there, with seeing differences in prospect show placing and terminal show placings.

I hate when a judge says this. I don't know about anyone else but if I have a heifer, sibling to a steer or not, if she hasn't good structure I'm not keeping her. Maybe this is the fundamental issue with people. And anyway, when we are judging a steer at a show, we are judging THAT STEER, not it's darn sister/brother/mother/father/cousin or whatever. As far a prospect show, unless a steer has pretty bad leg structure it's going to make it to slaughter, as in, more than average sickles/cow hocks/ bow legs etc. And considering you get 6-700kg cows with bad legs making it a few years a steer with the same structure getting to that size as a maximum, minus the mating and what not, they're going to be ok. This is another fundamental lesson I learnt at the feedlot. I think some judges need to go spend some time there before they judge steers because it really is the extreme. If a steer can make it through that and still walk, his structure is FINE.

 

[Keren]

I get where you are coming from, wanting steers to have good structure so they dont break down during the feed out period, I really do.

But in reality, there are very few that 'break down'. The feedlot I worked in was an export feedlot, it specialised in Wagyu cattle. Those cattle were hard fed for 12 - 18 mths. They were without a doubt the worst structured animals I have ever seen. When arrived at the feedlot and came off the truck, they were cow hocked, bow legged, sickle hocked, post legged, sway backed, roach backed, knock kneed, soft in the pasterns. You name it, they had it. Absolutely the worst structure you have ever seen on an animal.

But - the important thing is - those steers and heifers didnt break down. They got through their feed out period with no problem at all. At the end of their time, their feet were so bad, they would basically be walking with their pasterns on the ground, and their feet were at least 3x as long as they should be. But, THEY WALKED. They got around just fine, got around the pen to the feed bunk, got out to the yards for weighing and other routine things, no problem at all. They go bl00dy fast too.

So what I'm trying to say is, it is a good theory that steers need to be structurally correct so they dont break down. But in reality, not many of them do break down. Animals with shocking structural faults will make it through even a very long feed out period just fine.

 

[phillse]

I saw a few break down last year, they made it to one prospect show before the straight shoulders lead to problems in the front end and limping and hobbling ensued.

One of the calves did not break down per say it could get up eat and then lay down again so it finished out and was butchered. However, the calf could not stand to walk more than a few feet at a time.

Furthermore, a calf walking on its pasterns or shuch is really ugly, will it do to feed out and butcher probably but afterall there is an element of beauty padgett to cattle shows. If not then why don't we drag them in the ring with mud, and poop on them. Why spend time washing clipping and fitting.

We must remember that cattle shows are visited by people other than cattlemen as they are open to the public. Can you see the potential damage to the beef industry if those poor Wagyu calves had been at a show where they were in the lime light. Can one say PR disaster for the Beef Industry

 

[phillse]

I hate when a judge says this. I don't know about anyone else but if I have a heifer, sibling to a steer or not, if she hasn't good structure I'm not keeping her. Maybe this is the fundamental issue with people. And anyway, when we are judging a steer at a show, we are judging THAT STEER, not it's darn sister/brother/mother/father/cousin or whatever. As far a prospect show, unless a steer has pretty bad leg structure it's going to make it to slaughter, as in, more than average sickles/cow hocks/ bow legs etc. And considering you get 6-700kg cows with bad legs making it a few years a steer with the same structure getting to that size as a maximum, minus the mating and what not, they're going to be ok. This is another fundamental lesson I learnt at the feedlot. I think some judges need to go spend some time there before they judge steers because it really is the extreme. If a steer can make it through that and still walk, his structure is FINE.

Then my hat is of to you for having comonn sense to require heifers to be structurallly correct.

Showing cattle is about winning, regardless of what anyone says everyone wants to win. How they go about winning is another some have integrity some do not.

Saying that for many of the people showing they only look at what is winning. They will breed to a bull just because calf x won of of that bull last year. Therfore for many of the people involved in showing lets say they get a heifer instead of a steer, the desicion is made that since a brother won she make a good cow to raise show calves. Lets face it, ther are some really knowledgable breeding cattle for function and looks, but there are many not so knowledgeable people trying to live their livers through their kids and they get caught up in the hype of bulls siring winners, and forget to look at function and structural correctness.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Well I don't know what's going on there, perhaps there is something else in the mix. Like I've said, and Keren also mentioned. I've seen some shocking confirmation come through the feed lot and leave still with bad confirmation but moving ok onto the truck, and I didn't even have wagyu.

 

[phillse]

I hope you do not think I am trying to start a ruckus. I was just trying to point out that many times, we have to think about the big picture. I am not a traditional show cattle person. I do not judge many shows, as I usually tend to judge more from a production stand point than pretty stand point, especially when judging heifer classes.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

No no, you aren't starting a ruckus, debate is healthy . I can see where you are coming from. Personally I wouldn't take an animal to the show with really bad confirmation for the reason you mention, I want an animal that's going to look good and a steer with severe confirmation issues won't look good, and I suppose if a judge wants to discriminate he needs to give reasons. If my steer was cow hocked or something I wouldn't care, he can have these sorts of faults and still look good. I guess that's the sad state of the show circuit. People don't think about their animals. A breeding heifer is a very different animal to a meat steer and it's sad people can't distinguish that what you would allow in a steer, is not what you would allow in a breeding heifer. But like you say, a lot of people want to breed champions, not sound stock, in this you make a good point. :clap: