Club calf. Added new one, Plus one more

[phillse]

If my steer was cow hocked or something I wouldn't care, he can have these sorts of faults and still look good.

You are right an animal can have faults and look good, but I think we can agree that some faults are more detrimental than others.

 

[Snider_Angus]

Oh man, it kills me that you guys are looking for structural soundness in a steer!

Livestock Judging has a fair amount of variability in it. Each Judge has their own opinions about what is important. Some Judges place more emphasis on structure, some on muscle and some are in the middle.

When Judging steers, I do place considerable emphasis on structure, because remeber for every steer that wins there is a sister back home that will go into production. However, I do not judge prospect steer show and teminal steer shows with equal emphasis on structure. At a prospect show, the steer has more growing to do and structure is very important. I do not want a champion steer that will break down before the terminal show. At a terminal show the animal is going to cross the rainbow in a matter of days, and I am not as concerned with structural correctness. The steer still has to be able to walk but structure is not as important as muscle, and finish. The steer has made it to his destination.

Maybe that will help some of you guys out there, with seeing differences in prospect show placing and terminal show placings.

I hate when a judge says this. I don't know about anyone else but if I have a heifer, sibling to a steer or not, if she hasn't good structure I'm not keeping her. Maybe this is the fundamental issue with people. And anyway, when we are judging a steer at a show, we are judging THAT STEER, not it's darn sister/brother/mother/father/cousin or whatever. As far a prospect show, unless a steer has pretty bad leg structure it's going to make it to slaughter, as in, more than average sickles/cow hocks/ bow legs etc. And considering you get 6-700kg cows with bad legs making it a few years a steer with the same structure getting to that size as a maximum, minus the mating and what not, they're going to be ok. This is another fundamental lesson I learnt at the feedlot. I think some judges need to go spend some time there before they judge steers because it really is the extreme. If a steer can make it through that and still walk, his structure is FINE.

Alright here it goes, Some of you may get offended but oh well,
Judges mention the sisters of poor structured steers for 2 reasons,
1. Your already showing a sorry steer that you didn't cull, so what makes you think you are smart enough to cull the female(sister,mother,grandmother)?
2. Its a much kinder way of saying, your steer cant walk, im sorry, 10th place.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

I hate when a judge says this. I don't know about anyone else but if I have a heifer, sibling to a steer or not, if she hasn't good structure I'm not keeping her. Maybe this is the fundamental issue with people. And anyway, when we are judging a steer at a show, we are judging THAT STEER, not it's darn sister/brother/mother/father/cousin or whatever. As far a prospect show, unless a steer has pretty bad leg structure it's going to make it to slaughter, as in, more than average sickles/cow hocks/ bow legs etc. And considering you get 6-700kg cows with bad legs making it a few years a steer with the same structure getting to that size as a maximum, minus the mating and what not, they're going to be ok. This is another fundamental lesson I learnt at the feedlot. I think some judges need to go spend some time there before they judge steers because it really is the extreme. If a steer can make it through that and still walk, his structure is FINE.

Alright here it goes, Some of you may get offended but oh well,
Judges mention the sisters of poor structured steers for 2 reasons,
1. Your already showing a sorry steer that you didn't cull, so what makes you think you are smart enough to cull the female(sister,mother,grandmother)?
2. Its a much kinder way of saying, your steer cant walk, im sorry, 10th place.

The steer is being culled you tool. THAT'S WHY IT'S A STEER. We weren't saying "take your sorry steer into a show comp", we were saying structure isn't that important. A steer with minor faults is not going to become a cripple. The first steer has a dip behind his shoulders. So what? The steer isn't a bull, it's not making him a cripple, therefore it's not an issue.

I think you have no idea sometimes... Stop blow drying your show calves for a minute and go look at some real world cattle. You might actually learn something.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

Aren't we talking about show steers mate?

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Aren't we talking about show steers mate?

Yes cowboy, the reason 'real world cattle' was brought up was because people made comment about minor structural defects causing a steer to break down, when in actual fact it takes a pretty severe defect to render a steer broken down. Not that you would show a steer with severe defects but to say to someone who has a steer with minor defects "your steer will break down/won't walk in a few months" is stupid. Anyway, I believe you brought up 'real world' feedlot steers first, mate.

A structurally unsound calf cannot move around the feedlot.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

That I did. I'm not going to buy a calf with a structural problem because it is a SHOW steer. Your real world cattle can look how they want, I mean I hear CAB is taking anything black so what does it matter. A show steer is a reflection of the breeder and their program. A structual defect in an animal only gets worse with weight, so why shouldn't they be docked in the ring for it when they have another 30-90 days on those wheels before they are killed?

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

That I did. I'm not going to buy a calf with a structural problem because it is a SHOW steer. Your real world cattle can look how they want, I mean I hear CAB is taking anything black so what does it matter. A show steer is a reflection of the breeder and their program. A structual defect in an animal only gets worse with weight, so why shouldn't they be docked in the ring for it when they have another 30-90 days on those wheels before they are killed?

Because it isn't important, it's a steer that only has to make it to about 18mths old. If you have a steer that comes in with awesome muscle, awesome finish but has a few minor structural faults he should still be viable for the top spot because he's done his job. By all means, if you have 2 steers that are equal on all levels of muscle, finish, growth etc and one has a structural fault, I suppose you have to split the two and that's ok. Most minor faults don't get that much worse with the amount of weight that goes on. If we're talking about a bull that goes from a weaning weight of say 350kg to 900kg then yeah, but a show steer that goes from 350kg to say 600kg maximum isn't going to show that much change in a minor fault. Structural integrity in a steer should not be a priority in the show ring unless it is a fault that is severe and will cause issues. Structure in a steer is a tick the box thing "is his structure OK?" not necessarily perfect, just ok is fine. I thought you would understand this coming from an operation with a commercial side to it.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Wait so you wouldn't buy a steer with say slight cow hocks?

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

I understand what you are saying but I don't put my commercials and show cattle on the same level. If a calf has a fault, he is sent packing. As to your question, depends. Is he destined to a hair show that I can hide that fault with or is he going to a slick show where I can do nothing to hide it?

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

And this is where we go full circle to the argument in the clubby bull thread :lol: Actually someone showed me the other day how to clip a cow hocked animal and it was amazing how convincing it was, and that was on just an Australian terminal steer so he wasn't that hairy. Like you would honestly have to be looking at it to notice.

 

[VCC]

Why would someone want to buy a calf to show that had structural problems, most terminal operations castrate everything, they are not culls they are terminal. The ranch we buys are calves from send all the culls to the sale yard prior to selling the main group. Why? It is their name going above that calf at the shows, you do not want people to think that you raise crap, sell your best cull the rest. It is a lot like selling bulls when it comes to selling show steers.

The structure problems you run into especially with club calves is too straight in the front or on the pasterns, toed out to the point the feet are heading east and west, these are structure problems that should be culled out, big shoulders week top lines and cow hocked aren't going to prevent the calf from finishing out but they are not attractive in the show ring.

I know it is hard to believe but when some one spends $20,000 on a steer I don't think it is going to be a cull. (I know, don't ask me why someone would spend that much on a steer) To see more ridiculous steer prices try this site.
http://www.lautnerfarms.com/highsellers.html
I am sure that these were not culls, they can make easier money selling them as steers than they can if they where bulls.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

And this is where we go full circle to the argument in the clubby bull thread :lol: Actually someone showed me the other day how to clip a cow hocked animal and it was amazing how convincing it was, and that was on just an Australian terminal steer so he wasn't that hairy. Like you would honestly have to be looking at it to notice.

Now think of that leg with four inches of hair on it and there ya go.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't read through all the bull, but anyhow it's my turn. I really like the white steer. The topline does worry me, but it could be the way he is standing. You feed that calf out and he is going to be great for county! Color doesn't matter at our shows anymore, so I wouldn't worry about that at all. The trick to making a good calf great is feed, feed, feed.