Clover vs Rye grass

[Earl Thigpen]

I visited my feed, seed and fertilizer supplier the other day to check on booking seed for Winter forage for my cattle. I asked about clover - when to plant, best planting method, etc and was told not to plant clover. Plant rye grass instead.

I know you may remember my complaints about not being able to get a decent stand of rye grass in years past so I still have reservations about overseeding rye in my hay fields. I wanted to try the clover thing but the negative comment about the clover really took me back.

Anyone have a guess why clover would not have been an option? This is not a test - I really want some opinions. My place is in SE Texas and it has been really dry this year. Maybe that could be a reason? Yes, I realize that moisture is needed even for rye to come up.

Thanks,

 

[bigbull338]

sounds to me like the guys your talking to dont like clover.now clover is high as thunder.but if you get a good stand.it will produce alot of grazing.you can plant 3 to 4lbs to the ac.we always liked mixing clover an rye grass an broadcasting it.

 

[Bluestem]

Growing conditions in S.Texas are different than N.Texas. In N.Texas rye grass and certain clovers will set your Bermuda hay crop back. I would not seed rye grass into my hay field. Crimson is finished by May. Which does not set your first cutting back.
I would ask my fertilizer dealer why he thinks I should plant rye grass instead of a nitrogen fixing clover.

 

[bigbull338]

rye grass will not set your coastal back at all.what rye is still going in may will grow with the coastal.weve looked at our meadows an the coastal was growing up through the ryre grass.so the rye grass doesnt stunt coastal growth in my eyes.

 

[1982vett]

About all I can figure is that ryegrass will lay their until it gets the moisture to come up. But I would think that with either, a timely rain and cool temperatures are a requirement for its survival. I pasture drilled some rye last year in early November and got a great stand. I didn't fertilize it and it didn't produce because I didn't fertilize so this year I drilled oats instead for two reasons. Soil test fertilizer recommendation for oats was about 30% less than that for ryegrass and oats is usually ready to graze sooner that ryegrass. I'm going to need grazing as soon as I can get it this year and a third reason is that my neighbor has been doing it for several years with reasonable success. I've failed twice to get a stand of ball clover by just spreading it out and letting the cattle walk it in. I believe the main problem was the rains have just been too far apart. I'm trying one more time this year, but I am using a pasture drill with a legume seedbox.

 

[novatech]

I don,t understand the advice from the supplier. I would ask him to explain. If rye would do good then it seems as though clover would also. I would check with the area county agent as to the best variety. I would also do a soil test as clover will not do good without enough P. The added benefit is that you will get some gain in N for the warm season grasses. There is some benefit as a companion plant to oats or the rye. You may also want to have a mix of hard a scarified seed in case you do not get the rain.
I prefer to plant all 3 as a mix. You will get some early grazing from the oats and later from the rye and clover.

 

[dun]

Depending on the climate, clover may not do squat for fall/winter forage like ryegrass.

 

[brandonm_13]

I can tell you that from experience, most suppliers just want to sell you what they like and they think everything else is junk. I know. I workd in the industry for quite a few years. There is nothing wrong with either species. There is nothing wrong with planting a mixture of ryegrass and crimson clover. It's basically the same as running fescue and white clover, or orchardgrass and red clover.

 

[msscamp]

Anyone have a guess why clover would not have been an option? This is not a test - I really want some opinions. My place is in SE Texas and it has been really dry this year. Maybe that could be a reason? Yes, I realize that moisture is needed even for rye to come up.

Thanks,

The dryness could be a reason why he was against it. Another possiblility could be that because clover is a legume, it carries a potential for bloat and he didn't know how to handle that. A 3rd possible reason could be that he has no experience/knowledge of clover, and was unwilling to get into a situation where he would have to answer questions. I believe I would go back and ask about his specific reasons for not seeding with clover, that is the only way you will ever know.

 

[arkie 74]

My dad told me about a oldtimer putting clover seed in his feed mixture and then they passed it. He said the cows wouldn't eat what they passed and it give the clover extra time to establish a root system.

 

[BC]

How far in south Texas are you? If you are below I-10, you may want to look into one of the medics (another type of legume). Dr. Bill Okenpaugh has been working on one for south Texas called Armadillo medic.

As to if ryegrass can shade out bermuda in the spring - the answer is yes. I have seen two fields in which the ryegrass was underutilized and had way too much top growth. It actually shaded and choked the bermuda out. THe producers had to re-sprig those fields.

 

[SRBeef]

Many seed dealers tend to sell what they have in stock or on order rather than what you want.

I am a long ways from Texas but have had excellent results this year with red clover which was notill drilled into existing grass pasture. We were extremely dry in August and September. The clover came through with forage when about everything else stopped. As we are starting to get some fall moisture it is coming back great even after more intense grazing than I like.

Clover is an extremely small hard round seed. It is also expensive seed. I would do a soil test first to see if you are in the pH and fertility range that clover likes then DRILL it in with a no-till drill with a small seed box as noted above. Forget the "wishful thinking" seeding methods, in my opinion. Also, do not forget to stir in some innoculant into the seed box to get the full benefit of the nitrogen fixation. It does need some moisture and time to get established.

And if your seed dealer is trying to steer you to rye rather than clover, he most certainly will not have the right innoculant. Go to another seed dealer who knows clover.

You will be rewarded with some good forage which fixes its own ntrogen. There were a number of videos with links posted on this board made by someone in central Texas as I recall who was very high on clover in Texas. Good luck.