Cattleman of the Future?

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skyline

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Here's a hypothetical... I'm past this point in life, but I'm curious. If a young person, right out of high school, wanted to eventually be a full time cattleman, how would he get to that point? Seems to me that most full time cattlemen today either inherit their ranch and lifestock or they work their way into it by making their seed money in another line of work.

Assume that young person was willing to move anywhere in the country and was starting out with no initial money - how could they get to their goal of being a full time cattleman?
 
Without inheriting land, I'd say the only way would be to work at a good-paying job and save as much money as possible for about 30 years, then retire, use savings to buy land and cattle and hope for the best. Probably would still need to work at a real job to get by.

Actually, I think under those circumstances it would impossible to put together a cattle operation and hope to be able to make a living at it. :tiphat:

Winning the lottery might make it a good bit easier. :wave:
 
That's the conclusion that I'm coming to as well. That there is not enough money in this business to start from scratch and make a go of it. Especially if you consider all of your start up costs and treat this like any other business. And that's pretty stinking depressing.
 
Caustic Burno":3hv7s1p6 said:
Win the Lottery. I wouldn't have a clue.

Good post.

They ain't making land no more ... or that what my Grandad told me..
 
The land would be the real snag, for sure. I'm sure it's not typical, but around here land is selling for up to $30,000 an acre. About the cheapest you can find runs about $10,000 per. That not only puts land out of the reach of ordinary folks, it sure makes it impossible to make any money with a farm or ranch operation.
 
I know it's probably been discussed on here before, but I wonder if there is anywhere left in the US today where the stocking rate to land cost ratio is high enough to make a profit in the cattle business with the land cost considered in the equation?
 
skyline":184t8y4v said:
I know it's probably been discussed on here before, but I wonder if there is anywhere left in the US today where the stocking rate to land cost ratio is high enough to make a profit in the cattle business with the land cost considered in the equation?

Not that I know of, until we have a correction and there will be one.
I know of one rancher on this board that is of the younger generation I believe will be sucessful in cattle.
Very smart cookie.
 
Caustic Burno":2urfed5x said:
Not that I know of, until we have a correction and there will be one.
I know of one rancher on this board that is of the younger generation I believe will be sucessful in cattle.
Very smart cookie.

CB, that is a high compliment to someone - coming from you.

I guess I have known all along that it would be tough for someone starting out from scratch to make a living at this, considering all the costs such as labor and land, but it is really sinking in that it is impossible (unless I'm missing something). I think I've seen you quote that you net around $60 per momma cow per year, but that can't include land cost or your labor. And just think, the good folks eating beef don't have a clue how subsidized the cost of beef is by the ranching community. So we're not even appreciated by the consumer!
 
i can think of one who will be successful in anything attempted. that same one is probably smart enough to do something else to earn money and raise cattle on the side...
 
One of the saddest things I have seen is an old couple selling out because the kids don't want to ranch, and at the same time knowing a couple of young people that REALLY love and want to ranch but no access to land. Wish there was a fair way to put these kinds of people together. The kids of the old folks just want the money, and can't blame them, but the ranch life is disappearing so fast as to just become a tourist attraction...wish there was some way to fix it.
 
Hippie Rancher":3sy3f6y1 said:
One of the saddest things I have seen is an old couple selling out because the kids don't want to ranch, and at the same time knowing a couple of young people that REALLY love and want to ranch but no access to land. Wish there was a fair way to put these kinds of people together. The kids of the old folks just want the money, and can't blame them, but the ranch life is disappearing so fast as to just become a tourist attraction...wish there was some way to fix it.

There is an occasional story of an older couple who find the right young couple to take over and cut them a break. Emphasis on "occasional".
I know a grand total of (one) farming family which seems to pass control smoothly from generation to generation. I don't know a lot about how they work, but they seem to accept roles within the operation and they work really long hours. They don't go in to town very often. It is hard to find a non-farmer who knows anything about them. I guess their property taxes are in 6 figures. Operating budget is probably around a million. Not one ever went to college (I fault them for that, but it works for them) and they generate a lot of $ out of their shop. Its a nice shop. They can fix most any machine.
Their path to prosperity was a dairy. A good one of course. It is a steady paycheck, and that is a must.
Parents are lovingly unable to choose among their children, in most cases. And each family supported requires a near million dollar investment. So you can see why the farms and ranches get sold. It is easier to divide $ than to divide land. Parents who want their legacy to continue will designate ONE heir to the land and give cash to the others. Sticky business, that.
 
The only way I can see to make a go of it is leasing.

Find a place were you can buy an operations center, then lease either from individuals or gov.

If you are planning to buy all the land you work you are dead before you start.
 
I am 34 years old and getting set up from scratch in cattle is almost impossible for my generation. I bought my first piece of land in 1999. Cut hay off the place for a few years before getting cows. By the time I make the land payments, cattle payments, equipment payments (hay equipment is a necessity here) and cover all other expenses there is nothing left over. Usually have to reach into my pocket to cover it all. I am about to get most of my equipment paid off and that will help a lot. I try to run the farm like a business. I have to be as efficient as possible. However, I consider it more of an investment than a source of income. Just as earnings in a retirement account are reinvested, I plan to reinvest any earnings into more land and cattle through the years. Hopefully in a couple of decades I can start to take some money out. A young person must absolutely love this lifestyle if they try to give it a go from scratch. Otherwise, there is no incentive and the setbacks they will face will overwhelm and discourage them. For example, lost five calves last year out of first calf heifers (low birth weight is an abused term). A few blows like that will cause you to re-evaluate why you do this. This board has been extremely valuable to me along with the help of my dad who has been around cattle since the 1950s. I read the studies from the research centers but they operate in a sterilized environment based on numbers that is separate from the real world sometimes. I have found the cattle business to be qualitative as well a quantitative. The numbers don't always tell the whole story and every farm is different (environmentally, financially, time invested, etc.).
I know that many on here warn against borrowing money and that certainly is wise advise. However, the capital required would take a lifetime of saving if not longer. Too small can be as bad as too big because the fixed costs can eat you up. The equipment dealership doesn't care if you only have ten cows, the tractor and hay equipment are the same price regardless. I would not even consider using a banker that does not understand farming. Also, land is so hard to get that if you want it you better jump on it when it becomes available. Most sales around here never go public and if they do you can be sure the guys that have time to set at the coffee shops will know about it first. One more thing, there is no way I could do this if my wife didn't give me her full support and confidence.
 
skyline":2qv2cqzy said:
Caustic Burno":2qv2cqzy said:
Not that I know of, until we have a correction and there will be one.
I know of one rancher on this board that is of the younger generation I believe will be sucessful in cattle.
Very smart cookie.

CB, that is a high compliment to someone - coming from you.

I guess I have known all along that it would be tough for someone starting out from scratch to make a living at this, considering all the costs such as labor and land, but it is really sinking in that it is impossible (unless I'm missing something). I think I've seen you quote that you net around $60 per momma cow per year, but that can't include land cost or your labor. And just think, the good folks eating beef don't have a clue how subsidized the cost of beef is by the ranching community. So we're not even appreciated by the consumer!

When I bought my land it was virgin timber, I cut the timber which paid for the land. Spent 27,000 on a D-8 rental with a shear blade to cut out all the stumps and windrow the tops for burning. This type of land doesn't exsist in East Texas any longer. My cost were minimal for fencing and dozer work. For years my big tractor was a Massey 135. I want to say it cost 3000 new.
 
Jake and milkmaid are two that immediately popped into my mind as having the potential to be successful at whatever they decide to do. If they want it, I think they will put out the effort to get it.
 
kb5iod":2c5djs77 said:
I am 34 years old and getting set up from scratch in cattle is almost impossible for my generation. I bought my first piece of land in 1999. Cut hay off the place for a few years before getting cows. By the time I make the land payments, cattle payments, equipment payments (hay equipment is a necessity here) and cover all other expenses there is nothing left over. Usually have to reach into my pocket to cover it all. I am about to get most of my equipment paid off and that will help a lot. I try to run the farm like a business. I have to be as efficient as possible. However, I consider it more of an investment than a source of income. Just as earnings in a retirement account are reinvested, I plan to reinvest any earnings into more land and cattle through the years. Hopefully in a couple of decades I can start to take some money out. A young person must absolutely love this lifestyle if they try to give it a go from scratch. Otherwise, there is no incentive and the setbacks they will face will overwhelm and discourage them. For example, lost five calves last year out of first calf heifers (low birth weight is an abused term). A few blows like that will cause you to re-evaluate why you do this. This board has been extremely valuable to me along with the help of my dad who has been around cattle since the 1950s. I read the studies from the research centers but they operate in a sterilized environment based on numbers that is separate from the real world sometimes. I have found the cattle business to be qualitative as well a quantitative. The numbers don't always tell the whole story and every farm is different (environmentally, financially, time invested, etc.).
I know that many on here warn against borrowing money and that certainly is wise advise. However, the capital required would take a lifetime of saving if not longer. Too small can be as bad as too big because the fixed costs can eat you up. The equipment dealership doesn't care if you only have ten cows, the tractor and hay equipment are the same price regardless. I would not even consider using a banker that does not understand farming. Also, land is so hard to get that if you want it you better jump on it when it becomes available. Most sales around here never go public and if they do you can be sure the guys that have time to set at the coffee shops will know about it first. One more thing, there is no way I could do this if my wife didn't give me her full support and confidence.

KB, your story is very similar to mine. Are you working another job and putting money from that job into the farm? Is your goal to full time farm at some point? Just curious. Although I would love to run cattle full time, there is no way to make it happen until I retire from my day job in about 20 years.
 
No doubt about it.. get a good paying job (or two) and plan on retiring early and becoming a full time rancher then. When you have a 401K plan that will help you out in a drought year.

Sad but true. Most farming families eventually get to a position they can no longer "pass on" the family farm.. primarily because not all siblings want the land, and are unwilling to pass up their opportunity at their inheritance.
 
Caustic Burno":nfy6o7jv said:
When I bought my land it was virgin timber, I cut the timber which paid for the land. Spent 27,000 on a D-8 rental with a shear blade to cut out all the stumps and windrow the tops for burning. This type of land doesn't exsist in East Texas any longer.

Caustic, I heard of people doing that up to about 10 years ago, but like you say, that deal doesn't exist anymore. I've got some fine pole timber on one tract, had it cruised before I bought it 2 or 3 years ago, and the timber was only worth about 1/3 of the purchase price of the land. They get a little closer in value as you get further from town.
 
I work full time, commute to get there, and I wish I could call it my fake job but I need it to stay ahead. I couldn't afford to start from scratch and I couldn't keep up with property taxes at today's going rate. There are a lot of other really good folks out there who deserve the chance to farm or ranch but weren't lucky enough to be born into the tradition. Or maybe it was part of their heritage before and they got separated from it through the generations.

All the more reason to be nice to beginners :)
 

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