Cattleman of the Future?

[kb5iod]

I am 34 years old and getting set up from scratch in cattle is almost impossible for my generation. I bought my first piece of land in 1999. Cut hay off the place for a few years before getting cows. By the time I make the land payments, cattle payments, equipment payments (hay equipment is a necessity here) and cover all other expenses there is nothing left over. Usually have to reach into my pocket to cover it all. I am about to get most of my equipment paid off and that will help a lot. I try to run the farm like a business. I have to be as efficient as possible. However, I consider it more of an investment than a source of income. Just as earnings in a retirement account are reinvested, I plan to reinvest any earnings into more land and cattle through the years. Hopefully in a couple of decades I can start to take some money out. A young person must absolutely love this lifestyle if they try to give it a go from scratch. Otherwise, there is no incentive and the setbacks they will face will overwhelm and discourage them. For example, lost five calves last year out of first calf heifers (low birth weight is an abused term). A few blows like that will cause you to re-evaluate why you do this. This board has been extremely valuable to me along with the help of my dad who has been around cattle since the 1950s. I read the studies from the research centers but they operate in a sterilized environment based on numbers that is separate from the real world sometimes. I have found the cattle business to be qualitative as well a quantitative. The numbers don't always tell the whole story and every farm is different (environmentally, financially, time invested, etc.).
I know that many on here warn against borrowing money and that certainly is wise advise. However, the capital required would take a lifetime of saving if not longer. Too small can be as bad as too big because the fixed costs can eat you up. The equipment dealership doesn't care if you only have ten cows, the tractor and hay equipment are the same price regardless. I would not even consider using a banker that does not understand farming. Also, land is so hard to get that if you want it you better jump on it when it becomes available. Most sales around here never go public and if they do you can be sure the guys that have time to set at the coffee shops will know about it first. One more thing, there is no way I could do this if my wife didn't give me her full support and confidence.

KB, your story is very similar to mine. Are you working another job and putting money from that job into the farm? Is your goal to full time farm at some point? Just curious. Although I would love to run cattle full time, there is no way to make it happen until I retire from my day job in about 20 years.

Yes, my wife and I both work other jobs. There is nothing I would rather do than be on the farm full time but it just isn't possible. My plan is to be full time some day, but it will take a lifetime of determination and planning to make it happen. I try to plan everything, including my cowherd, for where I want to be 25 to 30 years down the road, while at the same time taking it one day at a time.

 

[skyline]

I try to plan everything, including my cowherd, for where I want to be 25 to 30 years down the road, while at the same time taking it one day at a time.

That's a good way to approach everything in life. Sure does help when we accept reality, plan for the future, and take it one day at a time. Good luck to you. Sounds like you have a good future ahead of you.

 

[Caustic Burno]

When I bought my land it was virgin timber, I cut the timber which paid for the land. Spent 27,000 on a D-8 rental with a shear blade to cut out all the stumps and windrow the tops for burning. This type of land doesn't exsist in East Texas any longer.

Caustic, I heard of people doing that up to about 10 years ago, but like you say, that deal doesn't exist anymore. I've got some fine pole timber on one tract, had it cruised before I bought it 2 or 3 years ago, and the timber was only worth about 1/3 of the purchase price of the land. They get a little closer in value as you get further from town.

True and I paid anywhere from next to nothing 200 per acre to the most expensive acre was 800 in four different tracks.
The pine timber that came off here six trees were making a 30 ton load at 70 dollars a ton. I had one spot about 2 acres or so that had 20 pines on it greater than 30 inches in diameter they had to be hauled to La. as there was not a Texas mill that could take them.
The point is you can't find timber like that anymore, I still have some as I love to squirrel hunt.

 

[bigbull338]

theres no easy way to start farming.i dont care if its from scratch or handed down from the family.its a rough crual hard life.ive known a few marrages breakup because of farming.land an equipment prices are killers.an when you buy land.you sign your life away to the bank till everything is paid off.an then you work yourself to death for the way of life youve chosen.giving up alot along the way.but in the end its all worth it.

 

[Brute 23]

It is impossible to walk in to ranching purchase land and start an operation up like what you are talking about. Investers is the only way you could even consider,,,, it will be very hard to turn a profit at that.

 

[dun]

It is impossible to walk in to ranching purchase land and start an operation up like what you are talking about. Investers is the only way you could even consider,,,, it will be very hard to turn a profit at that.

I think what we will see are more small operations run as a sideline to a regualr job. The 10-50 head places will keep increasing and the middle sized operations, 50-100 head will start to be divided up into more of the smaller ones. The large operations that rtun on a couple of thousand acres will keep going but mostly in the less populated states.

 

[FarmGirl10]

Its nest to impossiple to start out from scratch. In our area we have an a$$hole retired drug dealer buying up all the land for a lot more than its worth. He does whatever he has to do to get it...he befriends people that are financially unstable or that don't really have a whole lot of friends and eventually harasses them until they'll sell out to them. He just convinced one of his "friends" to sell him a tractor at a really low price because he needed another and turned around and tripled the money he had invested in it. He's also going around and stealing farms from farmers that didn't marry someone with an extremely large trust fund by offering to rent for a lot more than the lands worth.

Sorry if it seemed like I was ranting.

 

[backhoeboogie]

It is impossible to walk in to ranching purchase land and start an operation up like what you are talking about. Investers is the only way you could even consider,,,, it will be very hard to turn a profit at that.

I think what we will see are more small operations run as a sideline to a regualr job. The 10-50 head places will keep increasing and the middle sized operations, 50-100 head will start to be divided up into more of the smaller ones. The large operations that rtun on a couple of thousand acres will keep going but mostly in the less populated states.

I think you are right.

There will be a shift in mindset. There will be more AI. There will be more folks raising their own beef sort of like those who have gardens and a few chickens now.

There will also be a few innovative kids who figure out a way to get it done, but it will never be the way it was.

 

[TREY-L]

I am 34 years old and getting set up from scratch in cattle is almost impossible for my generation. I bought my first piece of land in 1999. Cut hay off the place for a few years before getting cows. By the time I make the land payments, cattle payments, equipment payments (hay equipment is a necessity here) and cover all other expenses there is nothing left over. Usually have to reach into my pocket to cover it all. I am about to get most of my equipment paid off and that will help a lot. I try to run the farm like a business. I have to be as efficient as possible. However, I consider it more of an investment than a source of income. Just as earnings in a retirement account are reinvested, I plan to reinvest any earnings into more land and cattle through the years. Hopefully in a couple of decades I can start to take some money out. A young person must absolutely love this lifestyle if they try to give it a go from scratch. Otherwise, there is no incentive and the setbacks they will face will overwhelm and discourage them. For example, lost five calves last year out of first calf heifers (low birth weight is an abused term). A few blows like that will cause you to re-evaluate why you do this. This board has been extremely valuable to me along with the help of my dad who has been around cattle since the 1950s. I read the studies from the research centers but they operate in a sterilized environment based on numbers that is separate from the real world sometimes. I have found the cattle business to be qualitative as well a quantitative. The numbers don't always tell the whole story and every farm is different (environmentally, financially, time invested, etc.).
I know that many on here warn against borrowing money and that certainly is wise advise. However, the capital required would take a lifetime of saving if not longer. Too small can be as bad as too big because the fixed costs can eat you up. The equipment dealership doesn't care if you only have ten cows, the tractor and hay equipment are the same price regardless. I would not even consider using a banker that does not understand farming. Also, land is so hard to get that if you want it you better jump on it when it becomes available. Most sales around here never go public and if they do you can be sure the guys that have time to set at the coffee shops will know about it first. One more thing, there is no way I could do this if my wife didn't give me her full support and confidence.

KB, your story is very similar to mine. Are you working another job and putting money from that job into the farm? Is your goal to full time farm at some point? Just curious. Although I would love to run cattle full time, there is no way to make it happen until I retire from my day job in about 20 years.

Yes, my wife and I both work other jobs. There is nothing I would rather do than be on the farm full time but it just isn't possible. My plan is to be full time some day, but it will take a lifetime of determination and planning to make it happen. I try to plan everything, including my cowherd, for where I want to be 25 to 30 years down the road, while at the same time taking it one day at a time.

We could be triplets, as this is also my story. I am 33, work full time, spouse works full time. I am a firm believer that life meets no man half way, if you want something in life you have to go the full distance. The only thing I can see that I may have done a little different than you is that I didn't borrow for everything. I bought "used" everything, worked on everything myself, traded up when I could, bought a few head of cattle at a time when I had the extra money on hand. I now have 35 brood cows, Charolais, many of which are registered. I own 83 acres, I paid off the last 40 acres I bought in around 7 years. My brother and I just purchased 137 acres of timber land. I am not telling all this to seem like I am bragging. I just want others to know that it can be done, but it takes lots of hard work and determination to do it. If someone wants something bad enough they seem to find a way to make it happen. Take for example, someone that smokes ~ even if they don't work, they will find a way to buy cigarettes. You have to want it like that, in that same sort of way. The best advice I can offer, with my limited experience, is to pray about everything and let God be your farm manager. If things are meant to be, they will have a way of working out. Never give up!

Trey

 

[skyline]

Trey & KB, I was thinking about this topic last night as I put out hay. I bet you can relate to this. With a full time (plus) day job and a family, I do most of my cattlework in the dark. In the morning, I'm at the barn before light to feed the horses and I try to time it just right so that I can cube the cows right at sunrise (so I get to work on time) - I kinda like to see what's going on with them when I put out their feed in the morning. Most of the time, I get home from work or kid's activities (games, etc...) after dark, so I'm putting out round bales after the cows have laid down at night. Last night I was thinking it's a wonder that my cows don't have retina problems from being checked with a spotlight. I've come home from work the day before a holiday and found a problem - wound up being at the vet's with a cow on Thanksgiving morning this year. I look forward to Saturdays so that I can try to tackle a project like replacing a water tank float valve, sling some ryegrass seed, check fences after a storm, put out some mineral or salt, go to the feedstore, or heaven forbid hang a new gate or build some fence. But invariably, the family has something way more pressing than that going on. So most of my good ideas never get done.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I like having cows or I would sell them all. It's just dang sure difficult to balance it all out with the rest of life, isn't it? I was just thinking that ya'll could relate.

 

[kb5iod]

Skyline,

This time of year the headlights are one of the most important features on my tractor. Time constraints are certainly a problem. I'm sure many on this board can relate to that. I am glad this thread was started because it is great to find some others from my generation trying to make a go of it. I know that most of the younger people in this area that are into farming are, for the most part, doing it on someone elses nickels. I am not being critical of that at all because if I had the same opportunities I would take advantage of them. However, they can't relate to me and the way I do things. Some even tend to develop a pretty good ego, forgetting that it is not their name on the dotted line.

Maybe the moderators would consider adding a place on the board just for young farmers to exchange ideas.
We could post what has worked for us. At the same time, while it might be a little painful, we could post blunders and mistakes as well. We could compare plans for expansion, long term goals, ideas to save money, etc. Anything that might help us be successful. This might also help us connect with some of the more experienced and older members on the board. While we face many of the same things they faced, some of our challenges may be different. If they better understand what we are up against, they may be able to adapt their experience to our situations. For instance, Caustic mentioned buying his land with timber on it, cutting the timber and paying for the land. I know that years ago that was possible here also. But as he points out, those opportunities are gone. Cutover timberland here is priced so that by the time you clean it up and get it to producing grass you are behind where you would be had you bought the higher priced pastureland.