Cattle Financial Advisory Services.

[Crowderfarms]

I think it is great my Family started cattle ranching in the 1860's. Starting from nothing with buying land, etc would be very hard now days. So not joining in on laughing at people trying their best. Just my two cents.

Its not becuase they are small every one has to start somewhere, its talking like they are King Ranch. I posted it a while back out of the Cattleman the average rancher in Texas is 25-30 head with most over the age of 50. It was some small percentage less 5 percent had over a 100.

That's hitting the nail on the head CB.I've knoeople that have gone out and bought 50 head, and dont have the foggiest clue how to take care of one Cow. Another way to put it would be, If you are used to growing a few rows of Corn in your Garden , and suddenly you decide to plant a 100 acres. there's a big difference in maintaining what you are capable of, and what you're not. I hope I did'nt step on anyone's boots with my sarcastic reply,because I started out small once upon a time too, but there is some serious bragging in some posts that is rediculous.

Crowder 20 years ago a man could buy land in East Texas clear the timber to pay for the land and start out. Not today finding land with good marketable timber is rare and land prices are no longer 600 to 700 an acre. A tract of land behnd me with house sold the other day fro 350,000 thats about 50 acres with a 200,000 house. The guy wants to run cattle to make money he never will make money, you can't run enough cattle to pay that debt back on 50 acres.

Less than twenty years ago, you could buy a 100 acre farm, with a good house for 100,000. IF you could find a place similiar to that today, you can figure at least 400,000. Timber is being cut all over this area, as fast as the Loggers can get to it, but at the prices they offer, or even if you do it on a share, you can't hardly put a dent in paying off some land anymore.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Getting back to the orignal thread, on the breeds board a poster that runs less than 10 head is offering advice on linebreeding.This is what you were talking about in your earlier post and is true.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Getting back to the orignal thread, on the breeds board a poster that runs less than 10 head is offering advice on linebreeding.This is what you were talking about in your earlier post and is true.

Now that's just flat out crazy.You can learn a lot more keeping your mouth shut, than being a beginner and trying to fill the Boots of a Veteran Cattleman, overnight.You can learn a lot, from having a few head, but linebreeding with 10 head?Absurd.

 

[norriscathy]

Getting back to the orignal thread, on the breeds board a poster that runs less than 10 head is offering advice on linebreeding.This is what you were talking about in your earlier post and is true.

Now that's just flat out crazy.You can learn a lot more keeping your mouth shut, than being a beginner and trying to fill the Boots of a Veteran Cattleman, overnight.You can learn a lot, from having a few head, but linebreeding with 10 head?Absurd.

There are a lot of outstanding cattlemen on this board. We've been doing this for 25 years and Cathy and I run 225 head by ourselves (except for cow working time) and I learn something everyday from this board. Maybe just a tid bit, but still something useful. Kind of irratates me when some no cow know it all starts spouting off. Although Caustic hurt my feelings by call my Gelbviehs "German Limis"; most of the people on this borad are great. Just a few ding-a-lings out there.

 

[eric]

Its not becuase they are small every one has to start somewhere, its talking like they are King Ranch. I posted it a while back out of the Cattleman the average rancher in Texas is 25-30 head with most over the age of 50. It was some small percentage less 5 percent had over a 100.

Is that where the resentment comes from? I always got the impression that some of you oldtimers never liked us "hobby farmers" because we had other jobs which provided our main source of income and didnt have to squeeze every last nickle out of the cows we raise and/or sell. Yes, as you know, I am one of the guys who bought very expensive land near the city and built a big house, which raising cattle could never pay for. I sometimes wondered why you guys held it against some of us who have worked hard and had some luck and managed to make a few bucks over the years and decided to buy some cattle. I guarantee you I work as hard at my job as you do working your cattle. For me, cattle are a hobby, much like deer hunting. Heck, I know I spend more money on a deer lease and hunting/fishing then I do on cattle. If my cattle get sick, and me or my neighbors cant figure out whats wrong, I have no problem at all calling the vet out to look at her. It may cost me alot to save her, but what does that matter to anyone but me and my family? We probably spend as much on the dogs as we do on the cows, with no monetary return whatsoever possibly coming from them.

Thanks for clearing that up Caustic, now I know where you, for one, stand on small time cattle raisers. I guess I dont keep close enough tabs on the boards anymore to realize who has small herds and who has large herds, but I do notice some of the guys with supposedly large herds having diarherra of the mouth here lately, spewing all kinds of ridiculas advice that even me, with my limited amount of cattle experience, know to be false. It has gotten to where when I need a serious question answered or I have a problem, then I usualy just PM a few of you guys (and women ;-)) on here whom I know to be cattle people and they have never steered me wrong. I often wonder how some of these bigtime cattle ranchers have so much time to post on here all hours of the day and night.
After a few posts, it's not hard for someone to tell who is a real cattle guru, and who is blowing smoke. And it ain't got nothing to do with the number pf posts a person makes either.

 

[aplusmnt]

Getting back to the orignal thread, on the breeds board a poster that runs less than 10 head is offering advice on linebreeding.This is what you were talking about in your earlier post and is true.

Now that's just flat out crazy.You can learn a lot more keeping your mouth shut, than being a beginner and trying to fill the Boots of a Veteran Cattleman, overnight.You can learn a lot, from having a few head, but linebreeding with 10 head?Absurd.

Crowder I am the one that caustic is referring to. I do not try to fill the boots of a Veteran Cattleman, There has been twice on this board I have given advice on two larger issues. One was the agreeing with another experienced cattle person and every Agriculture research University in America that Short Calving seasons can maximize the profits and labor of a cattle operation.

And secondly I was giving the pros and cons of Line-breeding, and not one person said what I said was wrong, they just liked to laugh that a Janitor would be giving this advice. I do not line breed a herd less than ten (even though i will be A.I'ing a heifer using line-breeding in May.)

To agree with another experienced cattle person that Caustic did not agree with, and to give advice on line-breeding which I do know what I am talking about does not make for a Know it all. Other than that I have pretty well only given advice about Show calves which I do know something about!

And Caustic I never felt that I should be obligated, to tell you how many cows I have, or NorrisCathy to ask me how much money I make? That is just plain arrogant of you. And since I did not answer you, you fabricated me having, 4 cows, and not knowing what a Schedule F was. But I guess if you must know, (even though I do not see you giving that information) I have 130 Acres 20 heifer/Cows, Most of which were or are Show heifers. 10 of which are registered Angus & Maine and I can fax you copies of their papers, if that is a must to answer a question on this sight? 10 Commercial heifer/cows And one new PB Simmental bull.

Caustic If you were any good at math you can add up past the 4 you claim I have just from recent pictures I have posted. I have posted pictures of 5 head just in past few days that did not even involve the show heifer pictures.

Now would you like me to list how many Propane buffers, Auto Scrubbers and mops I own also? So you can way out how much of a Janitor I am?

There is a lot of nice people on here! And a lot of good advice, but it sure seems like there is a a lot of Cattleman that are either Full-time or Claiming to be big operators on here that are getting kind of full of themselves. It is a shame because I would say many of you are alienating many of the individuals that come on here to learn more about a subject that if nothing else they share in common with you big boys!

 

[cypressfarms]

I think that might offer a rewarding part-time opportunity for Caustic. When he's not over in Louisiana teaching college. Or working as a fieldman at the Angus sales.

The 5 -10 head operation, and how to make money after dropping 200,000 in on land and equipment.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Caustic, we are supposed to have a guest speaker this monday. Are you driving over to Baton Rouge???

 

[Crowderfarms]

The bottom line is a large number of us ARE Hobby Farmers.My first post was sarcastic, and was not meant to hurt anyone's feelings, it was based on local observations, where I've seen a few jump in the business with zero infrastructure and go into debt and loose there A$$. I'll be the first to admit, without my Job, I'd be in no shape to be in the business. My Dad told me many years ago, it's hard to make money on the Farm without a regular job.
Between land payments,Taxes, Insurance, equipment maintainance and a host of other things that nickel and dime us all to death,I'd have to have hundeds of acres and hundreds of Cows to make it without my Job.Modern times have made it un-feasible for us to be full time farmers and ranchers anymore.I only know a dozen or so men around here that work soley on the farm, and half of them are retired, and held jobs in town while they farmed earlier in their life. I'm not a hurtful person who picks on the smaller operator. I would much rather spend time conversing with someone with ANY cattle at all than someone wanting to talk politics, how to be politically correct, or any other boring subject.To me those that Farm or Ranch are the most interesting people I know no matter how many or how few you own.We all had to start learning somewhere.

 

[dane12]

Amen to that Eric

 

[ollie']

Cathy and I

I have been calling you Cathy....are there two of you? Do you have a split personality?

 

[norriscathy]

Its not becuase they are small every one has to start somewhere, its talking like they are King Ranch. I posted it a while back out of the Cattleman the average rancher in Texas is 25-30 head with most over the age of 50. It was some small percentage less 5 percent had over a 100.

Is that where the resentment comes from? I always got the impression that some of you oldtimers never liked us "hobby farmers" because we had other jobs which provided our main source of income and didnt have to squeeze every last nickle out of the cows we raise and/or sell. Yes, as you know, I am one of the guys who bought very expensive land near the city and built a big house, which raising cattle could never pay for. I sometimes wondered why you guys held it against some of us who have worked hard and had some luck and managed to make a few bucks over the years and decided to buy some cattle. I guarantee you I work as hard at my job as you do working your cattle. For me, cattle are a hobby, much like deer hunting. Heck, I know I spend more money on a deer lease and hunting/fishing then I do on cattle. If my cattle get sick, and me or my neighbors cant figure out whats wrong, I have no problem at all calling the vet out to look at her. It may cost me alot to save her, but what does that matter to anyone but me and my family? We probably spend as much on the dogs as we do on the cows, with no monetary return whatsoever possibly coming from them.

Thanks for clearing that up Caustic, now I know where you, for one, stand on small time cattle raisers. I guess I dont keep close enough tabs on the boards anymore to realize who has small herds and who has large herds, but I do notice some of the guys with supposedly large herds having diarherra of the mouth here lately, spewing all kinds of ridiculas advice that even me, with my limited amount of cattle experience, know to be false. It has gotten to where when I need a serious question answered or I have a problem, then I usualy just PM a few of you guys (and women ;-)) on here whom I know to be cattle people and they have never steered me wrong. I often wonder how some of these bigtime cattle ranchers have so much time to post on here all hours of the day and night.
After a few posts, it's not hard for someone to tell who is a real cattle guru, and who is blowing smoke. And it ain't got nothing to do with the number pf posts a person makes either.

Eric, it is more of a cultural thing. You consider a cow as almost people we consider her a meat animal to help feed the country. You think she needs to have an OR when she has a calf; we'll help her if we can but we accept that sometimes they die in birth. You fuss at us about small pond "ecoststems" while you turned the once mighty Trinity River into nothing more than a dry concrete ditch. You think its great to water cows out of municipal water when that water is being pipe to you from East Texas. Last week, thanks to your dams I could walk across the Sulphur River; which is also the water source for Texarkana. Texarkanas water now has such a stench that it is hard to drink. You want to build more dams and run more pipelines to Dallas taking East Texas water. Don't get so holy. Look in your own back yard first! We try to raise cattle for a profit you want to play with them; don't guess we'll ever met. Oh yeah, when you drink Ozarka water you're also drinking East Texas water.

 

[norriscathy]

Cathy and I

I have been calling you Cathy....are there two of you? Do you have a split personality?

Sorry about that, I never said. I am Norris. I think Flaboy is the one that started calling me Cathy. He seem a little nicer that way so I just let it go.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Moved to the correct thread.

 

[eric]

Eric, it is more of a cultural thing. You consider a cow as almost people we consider her a meat animal to help feed the country. You think she needs to have an OR when she has a calf; we'll help her if we can but we accept that sometimes they die in birth.

Not sure where that came from, as every calf that was born on my place was born out in the pasture, and I have yet to see one born yet. Usually happens while I am at work or sleeping.

You fuss at us about small pond "ecoststems" while you turned the once mighty Trinity River into nothing more than a dry concrete ditch

.

So you think I am wrong to spend my money on chemicals to clear up algae and such from my pond? I want my pond to look nice and be the focal point of my front pasture, thats why I put a big fountain in it. I dont want to see it covered with algae in the summertime.

You want to water cows out of municipal water when that water is being pipe to you from East Texas. Last week, thanks to your dams I could walk across the Sulphur River; which is also the water source for Texarkana

.

Dont suppose the 2nd driest yr in recent history could have anything to do with that, could it? I am a mile from Lake Lewisville, and it's very low also.

Texarkanas water now has such a stench that it is hard to drink. You want to build more dams and run more pipelines to Dallas taking East Texas water.

Not sure what to tell you about that, maybe talk to the water supply company and change the chemical make up or something?

Don't get so holy. Look in your own back yard first! We try to raise cattle for a profit you want to play with them; don't guess we'll ever met.

Never tried to get "holy" on you. I also try and raise cattle for a profit, but if it costs me a few bucks to have them out there, than I am o k with it. I dont resent you for scraping by and spending only the bare minimum on your cattle in order to make the most money you can, so why do you have a problem with those of us who have cattle for a side business and want to treat them as our "pets"?

Oh yeah, when you drink Ozarka water you're also drinking East Texas water

O k . Again, why does that bother you if I want to buy East Texas water?

 

[norriscathy]

Eric, when I'm speaking of "you" I an lumping most of the Dallasites together as a whole. Dallas has already comsumed what little water South Oklahoma had with your Lake Texhoma; You've already built Cooper Dam on the Sulphur and now you're wanting to build Hubbard Dam to take more of our water. Don't mind sharing; yall have just taken more than your share and I can't stand to see people waste something they didn't have in the first place. Maybe its time to let Dallas start taking care of Dallas and leaving our water alone!

 

[eric]

As I believe it was Caustic who stated before, I also can see water rights becoming as critical as mineral rights in the 21st century. I live in Flower Mound, and the town is really fighting with Upper Trinity Water Supply (current water supplier) over the costs to build a new lake a few hundred miles from here. It would be much cheaper for Flower Mound to just buy water from Dallas than pay for the construction of a new lake and all the hundreds of miles of supply lines.

When I built my house, I hooked up to city water for my household, but the neighbors all warned me about water rates, so I had a well dug for irrigation purposes and watering the cows and such. I have a little over an acre I keep for a yard, and it would cost me a small fortune to irrigate it with city water. And with the drought we are in now, I hate to think what my water bill would be without the well. I've got my land split up into 3 pastures right now, and I am thinking about running sprinklers on the smallest pasture (5 acres) if we dont get some more rain soon.

 

[GMN]

Everyone has to start somewhere!

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

Dang Eric, where have you been the last month or two? Out on the luncheon circuit with your best buddy, Mac Brown?

 

[aplusmnt]

Getting back to the orignal thread, on the breeds board a poster that runs less than 10 head is offering advice on linebreeding.This is what you were talking about in your earlier post and is true.

Now that's just flat out crazy.You can learn a lot more keeping your mouth shut, than being a beginner and trying to fill the Boots of a Veteran Cattleman, overnight.You can learn a lot, from having a few head, but linebreeding with 10 head?Absurd.

Crowder I am the one that caustic is referring to. I do not try to fill the boots of a Veteran Cattleman, There has been twice on this board I have given advice on two larger issues. One was the agreeing with another experienced cattle person and every Agriculture research University in America that Short Calving seasons can maximize the profits and labor of a cattle operation.

And secondly I was giving the pros and cons of Line-breeding, and not one person said what I said was wrong, they just liked to laugh that a Janitor would be giving this advice. I do not line breed a herd less than ten (even though i will be A.I'ing a heifer using line-breeding in May.)

To agree with another experienced cattle person that Caustic did not agree with, and to give advice on line-breeding which I do know what I am talking about does not make for a Know it all. Other than that I have pretty well only given advice about Show calves which I do know something about!

And Caustic I never felt that I should be obligated, to tell you how many cows I have, or NorrisCathy to ask me how much money I make? That is just plain arrogant of you. And since I did not answer you, you fabricated me having, 4 cows, and not knowing what a Schedule F was. But I guess if you must know, (even though I do not see you giving that information) I have 130 Acres 20 heifer/Cows, Most of which were or are Show heifers. 10 of which are registered Angus & Maine and I can fax you copies of their papers, if that is a must to answer a question on this sight? 10 Commercial heifer/cows And one new PB Simmental bull.

Caustic If you were any good at math you can add up past the 4 you claim I have just from recent pictures I have posted. I have posted pictures of 5 head just in past few days that did not even involve the show heifer pictures.

Now would you like me to list how many Propane buffers, Auto Scrubbers and mops I own also? So you can way out how much of a Janitor I am?

There is a lot of nice people on here! And a lot of good advice, but it sure seems like there is a a lot of Cattleman that are either Full-time or Claiming to be big operators on here that are getting kind of full of themselves. It is a shame because I would say many of you are alienating many of the individuals that come on here to learn more about a subject that if nothing else they share in common with you big boys!

Again you have your head up your butt I am not against immigration to this country as this is what it was founded on. I am against companies like your and others that will not pay a fair wage to support an American family and hire the illegal because of greed. I hold it against no one for trying to better their famlies life style I can see there case when small business owners pay 5 bucks an hour and there family can live like a king on that wage an American family starve to death. Let's see Exxon posted profits of 10 billion for the fourth quarter and people find it offensive for the workers that made the money for the company share in the profits by better wages.

Caustic.....seems like i'm not the only one with my head stuck somewhere. Your post has nothing to do with this thread? Read that Quote you posted of mine above and then read your answer. And then please tell us what you are talking about? Afraid you might have "Mad Caustic Disease" better watch it they might put a ban on you in Japan.

 

[eric]

Dang Eric, where have you been the last month or two? Out on the luncheon circuit with your best buddy, Mac Brown?

Nope AZ,and please, never,ever mention my name in the same sentence with that tobacco-row con man they have down there in Austin! Apparantly a blind squirrel does find an acorn every once in awhile. He did finally luck into some good fortune, but anyone with talent would have turned it into at least 2 championships! Unfortunately, I bleed purple and white, as in TCU, and again, we came up short by having an unprepared team in the second week of the season. They were still celebrating the OU win and let [/i]SMU sneak up on them.

Have a great day and we finally got some rain....2 1/4" last weekend, and just over an inch Saturday.