Castrate or Not?

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JMJ Farms":3hbhn3y5 said:
I band at birth. And wean before I sell. I haven't started vaccinating steers or heifers that I sell yet but I'm planning to start. I'm doing it in hopes of building a reputation for seeking quality calves.

But here's my conclusion. LOCALLY. Most of the buyers here buy calves, group them, "process" them, castrate, dehorn, wean, shots, etc. I think that they want to make the "value added" part for themselves. So there's really no incentive for them to pay more for calves that have already been "value added" on the farm because it takes money out of their pocket. I may be wrong about the motive but very seldom to I see where it benefits the farmer at the sale. The most constant thing I've ever observed at the sale barn is that the best calves bring the best money.

With that being said the best money I've ever made with cattle was fooling with junk calves and straightening them out. But it's time consuming.
The last time we sold, the local buyer told us to bring them in right off the cow, uncut and no vacs and he'd give us top dollar. We did, and I checked sale barn prices that week, and he was good for his word. As much as I like the idea of doing a vac program and preconditioning, I can't afford to with a deal like that.
 
Clodhopper":3s86neev said:
JMJ Farms":3s86neev said:
I band at birth. And wean before I sell. I haven't started vaccinating steers or heifers that I sell yet but I'm planning to start. I'm doing it in hopes of building a reputation for seeking quality calves.

But here's my conclusion. LOCALLY. Most of the buyers here buy calves, group them, "process" them, castrate, dehorn, wean, shots, etc. I think that they want to make the "value added" part for themselves. So there's really no incentive for them to pay more for calves that have already been "value added" on the farm because it takes money out of their pocket. I may be wrong about the motive but very seldom to I see where it benefits the farmer at the sale. The most constant thing I've ever observed at the sale barn is that the best calves bring the best money.

With that being said the best money I've ever made with cattle was fooling with junk calves and straightening them out. But it's time consuming.
The last time we sold, the local buyer told us to bring them in right off the cow, uncut and no vacs and he'd give us top dollar. We did, and I checked sale barn prices that week, and he was good for his word. As much as I like the idea of doing a vac program and preconditioning, I can't afford to with a deal like that.

I agree. That's a good deal for you Clodhopper.
 
I sure think everyone should castrate their calves, and follow BQA standards. And without a defined breeding season the bull calves will drive a cow in heat crazy.
 
Bigfoot":2ixunmuy said:
This point, usually leads to fall out, but I will make it again. We don't do the industry any favors, by selling cattle that are not ready to go to the salebarn. IMHO, calves should be fully weaned, castrated, and vaccinated. My entire area is discounted heavily because we are notorious for trailer weaning calves. We may be seeing such a small difference in bulls and steers, because of guilt by association.

If you don't sell in my area, then this part of the post, will not make any sense. I sold some calves last week, and I got my own pen. Calves were announced as one mans cattle weaned and vaccinated. In all honesty, it made very little difference in the price, plus it was a small group. I don't feel like my efforts were lost though. In all honesty, I may have gotten a nickel more per pound. I had close to that in working them. They had been implanted, and were 60 days weaned. They were conservatively 125 pounds heavier, than they were the day I pulled them off the cow though. Yes, I had some expense in getting them there. Was it worth trouble? To me yes, to others no. I wouldn't equate to ethics, but it was the right thing to do. I think it helps the industry. One could easily say let the next man down the line take his chances. Thats not the wrong attitude necessarily, but it does set the rest of us for guilt by association--------If any or all of that make sense.

precisely....before we sold the cow herd after my partner died....I was constantly working to develop relationships where i could sell calves directly to the feeder...my biggest problem was that I did not have trailer load lots. I would have thirty or forty calves and needed twice that many. We had good luck sending calves out west on the Va BCIA retained ownership program...we didn't make any more money and had to wait longer to get it but we got good carcass data back.....and knew what we were producing. helped with the bull marketing.

Today I have local all natural guys who would probably take them in smaller lots. But I only have four cows now.
 
BK9954":k8gjpjew said:
At the auctions I have been at I have not noticed much if any difference in price between steers and young bulls of the same size. . Is it really worth it to castrate? My last 3 calves were bull calves and wodering if it even worth while castrating. I plan to sell them when they aren 9-11 months old. Any opinions?
Last Saturday, I saw $7 to$10 per cwt difference between steers and bull calves over 550 lbs. After the sale, I asked an order buyer for one of the bigger order buying companies if what I observed was right. He showed me his recap on purchases that day. He had two orders for 600 to 675 lb calves of similar quality cattle (one order had to be steers only). The steers only averaged $124.75 per cwt. while the bull yearlings averaged $117.18 per cwt.

If you are going to sell under 400 lbs, it probably does not make any difference, BUT on 600 to 800 lbs yearlings it makes $40 to $80 per head to sell a steer.
 
Clodhopper":2lxopg6u said:
JMJ Farms":2lxopg6u said:
I band at birth. And wean before I sell. I haven't started vaccinating steers or heifers that I sell yet but I'm planning to start. I'm doing it in hopes of building a reputation for seeking quality calves.

But here's my conclusion. LOCALLY. Most of the buyers here buy calves, group them, "process" them, castrate, dehorn, wean, shots, etc. I think that they want to make the "value added" part for themselves. So there's really no incentive for them to pay more for calves that have already been "value added" on the farm because it takes money out of their pocket. I may be wrong about the motive but very seldom to I see where it benefits the farmer at the sale. The most constant thing I've ever observed at the sale barn is that the best calves bring the best money.

With that being said the best money I've ever made with cattle was fooling with junk calves and straightening them out. But it's time consuming.
The last time we sold, the local buyer told us to bring them in right off the cow, uncut and no vacs and he'd give us top dollar. We did, and I checked sale barn prices that week, and he was good for his word. As much as I like the idea of doing a vac program and preconditioning, I can't afford to with a deal like that.
Clodhopper, do what is good for you but what do you think was the first thing the buyer done after he got your calves? My bet was he castrated, weaned, and vaccinated them. You had good calves and he wanted them is the main thing.
 
No doubt that's what he did. We even told him that was our plan. I'm not sure why he didn't want them run through the chute, I would have, to me that's value added.
 
Clodhopper":3t0wl33l said:
No doubt that's what he did. We even told him that was our plan. I'm not sure why he didn't want them run through the chute, I would have, to me that's value added.

My thought of why he didn't is this, he knew the calves and knew he would have more competition bidding against them, making them go for more most likely, at the sale if you worked them at home and brought them in precon. So, he put the money in his pocket instead in yours. It's value added for him now, not for you, sadly. Value added is supposed to bring you more money. (unless you are in an area mentioned regularly where precon calves don't bring any more money at the barn?) The upside is, you didn't have to worry about any bleeding out, and that may make it worth it to some. I could completely understand that.
 
sim.-ang.king":17rwlpr2 said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.
 
Lazy M":25tmfb3k said:
sim.-ang.king":25tmfb3k said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

I don't blame you. I imagine it's a little tough to grab those by the back legs and hold them between your knees while someone else cuts them.
 
Lazy M":qruwth8p said:
sim.-ang.king":qruwth8p said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

Sometimes we would miss a few pigs that were supposed to be cut for whatever reason. We were young kids and we weren't big enough or strong enough to hold the hogs when they got that size (200 plus pounds). So we would catch em by the back legs and "steer" them into a 55 gallon drum laying down and then stand the drum up, and then start slicing. Problem solved. Worked pretty dang good too.
 
JMJ Farms":3kecbtxu said:
Lazy M":3kecbtxu said:
sim.-ang.king":3kecbtxu said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

Sometimes we would miss a few pigs that were supposed to be cut for whatever reason. We were young kids and we weren't big enough or strong enough to hold the hogs when they got that size (200 plus pounds). So we would catch em by the back legs and "steer" them into a 55 gallon drum laying down and then stand the drum up, and then start slicing. Problem solved. Worked pretty dang good too.

It can get real loud too! Folks within a mile knew it was castration day.
 
Rafter S":39688e53 said:
Lazy M":39688e53 said:
sim.-ang.king":39688e53 said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

I don't blame you. I imagine it's a little tough to grab those by the back legs and hold them between your knees while someone else cuts them.
We wrestle them down, flip them on their backs, and I sit on their bellies and hold their back legs up while he cuts.. Not fun..
 
LRTX1":fb83ylvs said:
JMJ Farms":fb83ylvs said:
Lazy M":fb83ylvs said:
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

Sometimes we would miss a few pigs that were supposed to be cut for whatever reason. We were young kids and we weren't big enough or strong enough to hold the hogs when they got that size (200 plus pounds). So we would catch em by the back legs and "steer" them into a 55 gallon drum laying down and then stand the drum up, and then start slicing. Problem solved. Worked pretty dang good too.

It can get real loud too! Folks within a mile knew it was castration day.
Best description is between a train whistle and a woman screaming into a microphone
 
Lazy M":wpxdc0pt said:
Rafter S":wpxdc0pt said:
Lazy M":wpxdc0pt said:
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

I don't blame you. I imagine it's a little tough to grab those by the back legs and hold them between your knees while someone else cuts them.
We wrestle them down, flip them on their backs, and I sit on their bellies and hold their back legs up while he cuts.. Not fun..
That's nuts. No pun intended!
 
Lazy M":2etatrca said:
sim.-ang.king":2etatrca said:
Try cutting a couple dozen 20 pound meishan boars, and you will enjoy doing bull calves.
FIL usually waits until his hogs are around 250#s before he bothers to castrate.. I hate taking that call for help.

I just cut some few days ago biggest was about 100lbs and that was a workout.. 250 ID never answer his call.
 
Here are some averages from todays sale. I went in the office after the sale and asked for averages on 3 orders that I observed this afternoon.
BT 40 (bull calves) average weight - 621 average price per cwt. = $121
BT 758 (steer calves) average weight - 651 average price per cwt = $127
BR 58 (steers, top quality) average weight - 613 average price per cwt = $135.57

It is easy to see $6 to $10 per cwt difference on 600+ lb steer vs bull calves. That is $36 to $60 per head difference. It amazes me to see a big bull calf that someone took the time to put an ear tag in his ear, but couldn't or wouldn't take the time to steer him.
 
BC":3etxz0m2 said:
Here are some averages from todays sale. I went in the office after the sale and asked for averages on 3 orders that I observed this afternoon.
BT 40 (bull calves) average weight - 621 average price per cwt. = $121
BT 758 (steer calves) average weight - 651 average price per cwt = $127
BR 58 (steers, top quality) average weight - 613 average price per cwt = $135.57

It is easy to see $6 to $10 per cwt difference on 600+ lb steer vs bull calves. That is $36 to $60 per head difference. It amazes me to see a big bull calf that someone took the time to put an ear tag in his ear, but couldn't or wouldn't take the time to steer him.

AMEN.
 
Just a little comparison on what the prices were at a sale Monday.

Feeder Steers: Medium and Large 1 pkg 283 lbs 177.00; few 300-400 lbs
150.00-178.00; few 400-500 lbs 143.00-160.00; 500-600 lbs 140.00-160.00; few
600-625 lbs 145.00-148.50. Medium and Large 1-2 few 325-400 lbs 140.00-157.00;
few 400-425 lbs 146.00-148.00; few 575-600 lbs 134.00-138.00.

Feeder Bulls: Medium and Large 1 400-500 lbs 139.00-154.00; 500-600 lbs
130.00-144.00; 600-675 lbs 127.00-135.00; pkg 880 lbs 114.00. Medium and Large
1-2 pkg 602 lbs 135.00; pkg 848 lbs 114.00.
 

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