Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
You get highest heterosis F1 x F1. But you can benefit from that heterosis by using the F1 COWS with a PB bull. F1 cows generally milk better, easy keepers, longevity, healthier, etc.
Jeanne - Simme Valley":csmtd3hy said:You get highest heterosis F1 x F1. But you can benefit from that heterosis by using the F1 COWS with a PB bull. F1 cows generally milk better, easy keepers, longevity, healthier, etc.
WalnutCrest":29d11rp2 said:I believe (but can't quote the research and am not interested in searching for it right now) the calves from F1 x F1 will result in greater spread (best to worst) in calf quality ...
Jeanne - Simme Valley":33zukfl2 said:You get highest heterosis F1 x F1. But you can benefit from that heterosis by using the F1 COWS with a PB bull. F1 cows generally milk better, easy keepers, longevity, healthier, etc.
ccr":1gffb29y said:Jeanne - Simme Valley":1gffb29y said:You get highest heterosis F1 x F1. But you can benefit from that heterosis by using the F1 COWS with a PB bull. F1 cows generally milk better, easy keepers, longevity, healthier, etc.
Not sure what PB means. I thought with ASA a fullblood is Sim x Sim and a Purebred can be a Sim x fullblood of another breed. Not sure about the definition of Fullblood vs Purebred. Or if these terms mean different things with different breeds.
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2lxuskp9 said:Absolutely NOT.
Actually to be considered Fullblood I believe they have to pedigree back like 5 generations 100% because people were importing cattle that were NOT 100% and calling them Fullblood because they were imported.
Jeanne - Simme Valley":az5hdc4e said:WalnutCr, you sorta have the concept, nut not quite.
A PB is NEVER considered 100%.
PB originally were developed using Fullbloods. Breeding up with FB bred to 0%, getting half bloods, bred to FB getting 3/4, bred to FB, getting 7/8. In the beginning females were considered PB at 7/8 but bulls had to be 15/16 to be PB.
We had a very established population before they dropped the 15.16 requirement.
A PB is never only 75% Simmental actual genetics. You forget we have been established since 1968.
An old PB line of cattle have an unmeasurable amount of "other breed".
Jeanne - Simme Valley":267vrmz4 said:We will agree to disagree.
ASA did a lot of DNA testing on black bulls, coming up with my quote of "unmeasurable" other breeds.
There are a lot of up-grading now. 1/2 bloods have gotten extremely popular - as cows and as bulls - and as feedlot cattle.
But, no matter how you figure it, 4/8 to 7/8 = 5.5/8 (called 3/4). 5.5/8 x 7/8 = 6.25/8 (called 7/8)
So, you would have to use % bulls for many years to creep up (or down) to 75%.
Jeanne - Simme Valley"} Yes said:There are a few folks here using Hereford, Limiflex, or Balancer bulls to upgrade, but Sim Angus bulls are by far the most popular.
PB Simi is tougher sell, but you could relabel them as Sim Angus. 8)
Jeanne - Simme Valley":li4mte9v said:WC, that was a lot of work, but it shows me where you are.
The first few decades consisted of upgrading mostly with Fullbloods. With the great Flech bulls, people continued using FB bulls.
Yes, there is definately a possibility of many cattle with your scenario, especially with the currant popularity our breed is having right now using upgrading.