calves born dead

[i♥cows]

Over the last two days, we have had two cows calve (Friday and Sunday). Both cows had no problems and we were there for both in case they needed assistance. The cows had the calves within 30 minutes of the water sac showing. Calves were stillborn; no signs of life after being tickled in the nose and hung upside down. Both calves had strange looking umbilical cords. The second calf had what looked like a herniated navel filling up the space between the hind legs (about the size of a calf head). Left the calf with the mother to stimulate contractions to expel the placenta. When we went back to check ion her an hour later the swelling between the legs was gone and it looked like there was a hole in the umbillical cord where it had been. I guess what we're trying to get at is if anyone else has seen anything like this before. We have had two successful calvings, both out of the two sires that the other cows are bred to.Could this be a coincidence that both had stillborn births or could it be environmental? I will be calling the vet tomorrow.

 

[Suzie Q]

I am on the other side of the world and I have not witnessed it, but I have been told to vaccinate our cattle against lepto (abbreviated name) other wise calves will be born dead.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Sounds odd, pictures would always help.

Piece of sound advice...NEVER NEVER hang a calf upside down. Basically you will drown them. Over a barrel, with the stomach lower than the lungs...but never upside down.

Ask your vet about epinephrin and dophram for times like this, when they come out not breathing.

 

[i♥cows]

We vaccinate our cows and calves every year with an 8 Way and a Lepto for breeding. Never had a problem like this before. As far as hanging calves upside down, we place them over a fence as was suggested by one of our vets. What I am hoping to find out is if anyone has seen the problem with the herniated umbilical/navel right after being born.
We also lost 2 bred cows (supposed to calve next week). Both were near the fence and looked as if they dropped and died right where they had been standing. They showed no signs of illness and had come up to the feed bunk the previous night. Found them dead around 5 AM the next day. I thought they had been hit by lightning (which is possible as we have been having crazy wet weather), but vet said we would smell and see singed hair. Necropsy showed no obvious signs. Now we are waiting for lab results on organs and stomach contents. Our vet also checked on the calves they were carrying and saw nothing unusual. I still feel that they receieved a hefty shock from ligtning hitting metal corral and elecrtric fence that they were standing next to. But with the last two cows that have calved dead calves, I am starting to think that all the events are somehow related.

 

[Lon]

Sounds odd, pictures would always help.

Piece of sound advice...NEVER NEVER hang a calf upside down. Basically you will drown them. Over a barrel, with the stomach lower than the lungs...but never upside down.

Ask your vet about epinephrin and dophram for times like this, when they come out not breathing.

really i was always taught specially if they were in some water to grab the back legs and lift them up and down quit a few times press on ribs some and lift up again and usually the stuff comes out. then lay on thier stomache propped up till they get to suckin air good.

 

[jillaroo]

Piece of sound advice...NEVER NEVER hang a calf upside down. Basically you will drown them. Over a barrel, with the stomach lower than the lungs...but never upside down.

Ask your vet about epinephrin and dophram for times like this, when they come out not breathing.

I totally agree with this. Hanging a calf upside down causes all the organs in the abdomen to press up against the lungs, making it harder for a calf to breathe. The fluids that you do see coming out are likely from the stomach.
Hanging them upside down is an older school of thought that has been proven to be detrimental to the calf.
We are not able to get Dopram, so I've been using Respiram. It's expensive, but worth it's weight in gold.
If you were going to take the calves to the vet for necropsy, take the placenta(s) with you if possible. Often, they tell the tale better than the calf.
Good luck with the rest of your cows.

 

[msscamp]

Sounds odd, pictures would always help.

Piece of sound advice...NEVER NEVER hang a calf upside down. Basically you will drown them. Over a barrel, with the stomach lower than the lungs...but never upside down.

Ask your vet about epinephrin and dophram for times like this, when they come out not breathing.

really i was always taught specially if they were in some water to grab the back legs and lift them up and down quit a few times press on ribs some and lift up again and usually the stuff comes out. then lay on thier stomache propped up till they get to suckin air good.

I'm wondering if there isn't something getting lost in the translation here. There is a very big difference between lifting a calf by the back legs, as opposed to hanging it upside down. Hanging a calf upside down has been proven to cause more problems than it solves, however lifting the back legs would basically be the same as placing it over a barrel or a fence, I'm thinking. I could be wrong, though. For what it's worth, we also raised the back end of the calf when we had one born backwards or one with fluid in their lungs. Seemed to work just fine.

 

[Nesikep]

well, on one of the calves I had to pull this year, he was doing fine and breathing when he was halfway out, but was hiplocked and he was bawling his eyes out for 20 minutes (I'm sure the chains weren't comfy), but as soon as we got him all the way out, he stopped breathing...
Here's why you take a first aid course.. CPR.. can do it on a calf too... I felt for a pulse, which he had, so I cleaned out his mouth and nose, then sealed his mouth and 1 nostril, and blew into the other... make sure you extend the neck to do this or you'll never get any air into the lungs
After pulling for all I was worth, and then performing CPR for a minute, I was the one in need of the first aid, but it all paid off, he came to again and started breathing... the joke we have about him is his front end is an hour older than the rest of him

do you know if these calves were alive to begin with? like when the nose started showing?... did they get stuck for any time at the chest?

As for the cows, we had one mysteriously die on us the first day we fed hay in the winter... no idea why, figure hardware poisoning but from what I understand you'd probably see it sickish the day before

A bale of hay works well to throw a calf on to clear his throat

 

[Chris H]

well, on one of the calves I had to pull this year, he was doing fine and breathing when he was halfway out, but was hiplocked and he was bawling his eyes out for 20 minutes (I'm sure the chains weren't comfy), but as soon as we got him all the way out, he stopped breathing...
Here's why you take a first aid course.. CPR.. can do it on a calf too... I felt for a pulse, which he had, so I cleaned out his mouth and nose, then sealed his mouth and 1 nostril, and blew into the other... make sure you extend the neck to do this or you'll never get any air into the lungs
After pulling for all I was worth, and then performing CPR for a minute, I was the one in need of the first aid, but it all paid off, he came to again and started breathing... the joke we have about him is his front end is an hour older than the rest of him

do you know if these calves were alive to begin with? like when the nose started showing?... did they get stuck for any time at the chest?

As for the cows, we had one mysteriously die on us the first day we fed hay in the winter... no idea why, figure hardware poisoning but from what I understand you'd probably see it sickish the day before

A bale of hay works well to throw a calf on to clear his throat

Short hijack...Nesikep, when we're pulling a calf that hiplocks we release the chains and let the calf have a breather. A calf can't breathe well with its front legs pulled tight with the puller. Releasing the chains also lets us give the calf a quarter rotation, and quite often that's enough for him to slip on out.

Back to hanging upside down, we also use a bale of hay to hang the calf over to clear it's lungs.

 

[Angus Cowman]

We vaccinate our cows and calves every year with an 8 Way and a Lepto for breeding. Never had a problem like this before. As far as hanging calves upside down, we place them over a fence as was suggested by one of our vets. What I am hoping to find out is if anyone has seen the problem with the herniated umbilical/navel right after being born.
We also lost 2 bred cows (supposed to calve next week). Both were near the fence and looked as if they dropped and died right where they had been standing. They showed no signs of illness and had come up to the feed bunk the previous night. Found them dead around 5 AM the next day. I thought they had been hit by lightning (which is possible as we have been having crazy wet weather), but vet said we would smell and see singed hair. Necropsy showed no obvious signs. Now we are waiting for lab results on organs and stomach contents. Our vet also checked on the calves they were carrying and saw nothing unusual. I still feel that they receieved a hefty shock from ligtning hitting metal corral and elecrtric fence that they were standing next to. But with the last two cows that have calved dead calves, I am starting to think that all the events are somehow related.

your vet is wrong on this one
I have seen lots of animals hit by lightening they have never smelled burnt or had singed hair

 

[Nesikep]

Short hijack...Nesikep, when we're pulling a calf that hiplocks we release the chains and let the calf have a breather. A calf can't breathe well with its front legs pulled tight with the puller. Releasing the chains also lets us give the calf a quarter rotation, and quite often that's enough for him to slip on out.

Back to hanging upside down, we also use a bale of hay to hang the calf over to clear it's lungs.

Oh we did that many times, as much for us to catch our breath as for the calf, and we did try and rotate him, etc... there just isn't that much room to do it all when it's a heifer