Calf wants more milk

[SouthFla]

My wife and I have been bottle feeding two Holstein calves for a few days now with good success.

We're feeding a 20% fat, 20% protein, all milk non-medicated replacer.

We're mixing 250 grams of replacer in 1 quart of water twice daily (every 12 hours.)

Tonight after we finished feeding and one of the calves is doing his normal lunge at the empty bottle routine my wife made an interesting statement.

She said, "What I don't understand is, if this calf was feeding on its mother it would continue to feed until it was satisfied."

All of the research I've done says feed two quarts twice daily for a total of one gallon daily.

I don't want the little guy to go hungry but I don't want to over feed and cause problems either.

Is the calf really still hungry or is it the reduced water / higher concentrate method we are using that causes the calf to not "feel" as full?

What is a typical volume of milk a Holstein calf nursing on its mother might get?

I know she can sure as heck produce more than 1 gallon per day.

Is it safe to feed more than 500 grams per day?

 

[angie2]

I will say sounds like good replacer. How old are your babies? Don't feed more milk than directed. The only way I would advise that is if you were able to feed 3 times a day and work it out to be slightly more than directed. What is directed is what they should have for them to be healthy, anything more is wasting money and not to their benefit. Do your calves have grain and water available to them (both fresh)? Sounds like you have healthy babies ~ good for you!
BTW ~ your sig line is the best on the boards!

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Part of the problem may just be the instinct to suck - tummies can be full but mouth wants to keep going - it would take longer than 20 seconds to drain half a gallon from mom - if you want to take the time get a new nipple and keep the hole real small. A lot of calves will start sucking on themselves or each other if they don't get satisfied by the short time it takes to feed from a bottle - this can present problems.

Not clear on your amounts - you seem to be giving them a half gallon per day (one quart twice a day = half gallon) and instructions are a full gallon? New babies may need to start with less but all my bottle dogies were up to a full half-gallon bottle twice a day before very long. (half-gallon twice per day = 1 gallon)

 

[larryshoat]

Sounds like to me that you are giving plenty of powder in not enough water. The standard recommendation for a 100 lb Holstein calf would be 8oz powder in 2qt water . The reason for this is that the composition of the calf's body is about 12.5% solids, the composition of properly mixed milk is 12.5% solids. If you want to continue the way you are going you need to come back between feedings and feed warm water with the bottle between meals.

Larry

 

[SouthFla]

Alice2,

I'm guessing that they are about 10 to 14 days old but not certain.

The lady at the dairy called to say that she had 2 calves 3 days old ready to go.

When I went to pick them up, I pulled up right as some farm hands were pulling a calf.

I got out and watched as one hand carried the calf to the front of the chute and laid it on the grass in front of momma.

So I now know what a one minute old Holstein calf looks like.

I explained to the lead hand that I had been called to pick up 2, 3 day old calves.

He took me to the back of the milking house where about 8 calves were penned.

I saw two calves in one pen that looked a little larger than the one I had just witnessed being born and thought that those were probably mine.

However, the 2 the guys brought me looked at least 4 or 5 inches taller than the smaller ones back there.

I tried asking if these were 3 days old but my Spanish is not that good.

These guys looked healthy and lively so I took them.

Yes they have fresh water and calf starter.

Hippie Rancher and Larry,

Based on a posting by "Alice" to this link http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/DPI/nreninf.n ... 1400152034 , I thought the reasoning behind the reduced fluid volume sounded good.

( Firstly, it stimulates their appetite for concentrates at a younger age, because there is less distension in their abomasum after milk feeding. Secondly, it reduces scour problems, presumably because of reduced likelihood of undigested milk escaping into the intestine.)

So, yes they are only getting 1 quart of fluid per feeding and not sucking as long as they would on 2 quarts per feeding.

They are drinking from the water bucket but not a lot from there.

I am following the instructions on the milk replacer with respect to the weight of the powder but not the volume of water.

 

[dun]

Go by the label directions. I know it's hard tyo believe that a common that spends truck loads of moeny to develop a product would have any idea about it's proper useage, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
Thta said, the little boogers will still suck even if they're full.

 

[SouthFla]

Go by the label directions. I know it's hard tyo believe that a common that spends truck loads of moeny to develop a product would have any idea about it's proper useage, but give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dun, I must say I'm surprised that an experienced cattle man like you would put more stock in what a guy in a white lab coat says versus a group of dairymen getting dirty and getting it done.

 

[dun]

Go by the label directions. I know it's hard tyo believe that a common that spends truck loads of moeny to develop a product would have any idea about it's proper useage, but give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dun, I must say I'm surprised that an experienced cattle man like you would put more stock in what a guy in a white lab coat says versus a group of dairymen getting dirty and getting it done.

It's the dairyman getting it done that do it with the methods that are on the bag. Ever notice that dairy heifers aren;t potty and scrawny like so many of the people that think they know better how do do things.

 

[simangus23]

I used to manage both a dairy and a veal calf program and yes a holstein cow will produce about 100 lbs of milk per day during her peak milk production months. A dairy cow that is in a nurse cow program will normally be fed differently than a milk cow being run through the parlor 2 times per day. Limit feeding will limit milk production for a Nurse cow operation. Normally raising veal calves we would put 2-3 calves on 1 holstein cow.

Bottle feeding holstein calves we used raw milk of course and not milk replacer, but the idea is the same. A calf 2-3 days old would receive a mixture of 1/2 colostrum + 1/2 raw milk (or milk replacer) at 1/2 bottle 3 times per day until day 4. After day 4 calves would be fed 1/2 bottle 3 times per day rather than 1 bottle 2 times per day. Calves have to be brought up on the amount of milk per day gradually so that you do not shock their system with too much milk. By their 4th week they can be fed 1 1/2 bottles per feeding (2 times per day) and by their 8th - 10th week 2 bottles per feeding (2 times per day). By the time they are 12 to 16 weeks of age they can readily handle >1 gallon of milk in the am/pm. Veal calves are ready for slaughter at the 350 lb mark and this should be easily attainable by week 16. If you are thinking of raising them as a beef animal good luck with that and get your 2nd job lined up because in order to finish a holstein steer properly you will spend your retirement as they wont finish until they are at least 1600 lbs minimum. Do youself a favor if you want beef -- buy a beef calf.

Simangus23

 

[milkmaid]

Go by the label directions. I know it's hard tyo believe that a common that spends truck loads of moeny to develop a product would have any idea about it's proper useage, but give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dun, I must say I'm surprised that an experienced cattle man like you would put more stock in what a guy in a white lab coat says versus a group of dairymen getting dirty and getting it done.

It's the dairyman getting it done that do it with the methods that are on the bag. Ever notice that dairy heifers aren;t potty and scrawny like so many of the people that think they know better how do do things.

:clap: :clap:

 

[SouthFla]

It's the dairyman getting it done that do it with the methods that are on the bag. Ever notice that dairy heifers aren;t potty and scrawny like so many of the people that think they know better how do do things.

Sure, the dairy up the road from me has a bunch of nice looking young heifers.

I'm not sure how they do it though.

I figure we pretty much see it the same way Dun.

These guys going against the instructions might be the ones who are going to be responsible for changing the instructions on the bag.

It stands to reason that we're going to read about new methods being successful prior to those instructions actually changing on the bag.

I didn't go against the instructions on impulse.

Threads on this boards about the horrors of scours and bottle fed calves dropping dead is what made look for a better way.

I admit you're making me rethink the matter though.

 

[dun]

Threads on this boards about the horrors of scours and bottle fed calves dropping dead is what made look for a better way.

I admit you're making me rethink the matter though.

Persoanlly I think a lot of the scour problems in bottle calves stem from lack of sanitation. A calf can suck on an old muddy crap covered teat and not get sick, but the stuff that's in the bottle and not completely removed/sanatized after a while has to be some really nasty pahogens.
Potty looking poor doing calves are gnerally from folks weaning them and then just dumping them on grass or hay and discontinuing the grain, or at the best, not increasing the grain part of the ration as the calf grows.