CAB

[topsquar]

"oh no" not this subject again.

 

[grumpy]

I beleive that 'branded beef' marketing programs, of which there are many but CAB is the one of the most successful, are a very large part of the reason for increased consumption of beef. Should have limited that to the USA beef industry. Sorry Aussie.

 

[Frankie]

I beleive that 'branded beef' marketing programs, of which there are many but CAB is the one of the most successful, are a very large part of the reason for increased consumption of beef. Should have limited that to the USA beef industry. Sorry Aussie.

Yes, there are many branded beef programs, but CAB was the first truly successful one. Others have followed the trail they blazed. It's not cheap or easy to create a branded beef line and I doubt there would be so many now if CAB had not been so successful. So I think every successful branded beef program out there owes CAB a vote of thanks.
CAB was started when the USDA lowered grading standards so the packers could sell more Continental beef as high quality. The Angus Assn felt people would pay more for higher quality beef and they've been right. It took a lot of years, but today people recognize CAB as a high quality product. And they're willing to pay for it.
I'm also happy to see "lean beef" available as branded beef for those people who don't want CAB. That's an important market, too.

 

[la4angus]

CAB was started when the USDA lowered grading standards so the packers could sell more Continental beef as high quality.

CAB was started to help Angus breeders sell more bulls.

 

[Frankie]

to clarify

My point is not to increase any marketing obviously. It's that stating that something is "Angus" when it it not is false advertising basiclly. Red and Black angus have the same basic genetics other then color.

Yes, Red Angus was created from Angus genetics. That has nothing to do with CAB. It's a program created and paid for by the American Angus Association. Why should they include a breed that doesn't register their cattle with AAA in the CAB program? It's about money. You saw the specificiations. They say nothing about the animal being Angus. So why do you think it's "false advertising?"

If people want to argue over it they can, but their time would be much better spent trying to fix what they think is wrong.

Everytime someone drops the "A" word they bring up how CAB is fake, if you are tired of it, do something, plain and simple. Talk to CAB.

We've argued it here at Cattle Today over and over. Talk to CAB if you want. I don't think they're going to change their stand until there's money to be made for the Association and producers. Why should they include a competing breed?

If they are convinced by consumers and breeders(excluding those who sell crossbreds)they have to reform or else they lose business.

If consumers stop buying CAB because they fell it's deceiving, I'm sure they would change their program. But it's been around almost 35 years and consumers don't seem too concerned about it. We sold half a billion pounds last fiscal year.

I have to disagree with Frankie

I have never seen an angus with the same muscle shape of a Charolais, I have seen heavy muscled Angus but the shape of the muscle is different. Also the shape of the head is very noticable, These features will not mean they are purebred Angus, it just means that they arn't a black pb Simmi trying to bring a higher premium.

Do you seriously think while the packer is running thousands of animals through the kill chute every day, they have time to evlauate muscle and head shape? They don't. Back when CAB started, the packers weren't very interested in the program. They were doing fine selling commodity beef. The Angus Assn had to come up with a program that wouldn't interefer with or slow down their lines. That's why we have the specs we have. Of course, now packers make a lot of money of CAB and wouldn't want to see it go away. We also have ways to follow carcasses though the packing plant and see how good they are. We didn't have that when CAB was started.

Regardless of wether CAB is better or worse, if they market something as Certified ANGUS Beef, it should be predominantly Angus

That's your opinion and you have the right to it. I say if it meets the CABspecifications it's CAB.

Frankie's last statement about animal idenitfication could be benefical if you want beef that is considered CAB to acctually be angus.

How many black cattle here in the US do you think don't have Angus blood in them?

 

[la4angus]

Yes, Red Angus was created from Angus genetics.

Red Angus and Black Angus were the same breed in the beginning with 2 different hair colors. Mr Hugh Watson who was one of the founders of the angus breed preferred the black cattle over the red ones so he would not let the reds be registered as Aberdeen Angus. If he would have preferred the reds then the blacks would not have been able to be registered as Aberdeen Angus which is what the original name was.

 

[mtnman]

"How many black cattle here in the US do you think don't have Angus blood in them?"

None, they all do, about 2% or less. Big deal.

Saw a guy speak a while back. He said he had looked at these Continental pedigrees, and most of these American Continentals actually have more Hereford DNA in them then Black Angus.

So, the question becomes, "How many Angus cattle here in the US do you think don't have Continental blood in them?"

Not many, I suspect.

We only know that registered Angus make more CAB if we listen to the CAB folks crunching those numbers. I don't believe them, I know one too many guys who got fired from CAB for not wanting to cover up their numbers game. Seems honestly is in short supply in that office.

mtnman

 

[la4angus]

. It's a program created and paid for by the American Angus Association. Why should they include a breed that doesn't register their cattle with AAA in the CAB program?

This being the case, then please tell me why all the continental breeds are allowed to pass as CAB. They do not register their cattle with the AAA.

 

[BRG]

Thanks LA, you took the words out of my mouth.

 

[MikeC]

Why should they include a competing breed?

My dearest Frankie, "Competing" breeds are already included in the sale of CAB. But "Angus" is taking the credit for it.

That's the dishonesty that many talk about.

 

[mtnman]

Sad part is most of the competing breeds can hang heavier carcasses, and make a higher percentage of CAB when crossed with Angus, than straight Angus can, so they are a win/win situation.

Heavier weights, and higher percent premiums.

Some Continental guys I know love CAB, it allows them to make huge premiums on their Continental sired calves.

mtnman

 

[la4angus]

Sad part is most of the competing breeds can hang heavier carcasses, and make a higher percentage of CAB when crossed with Angus, than straight Angus can, so they are a win/win situation.

Heavier weights, and higher percent premiums.

Some Continental guys I know love CAB, it allows them to make huge premiums on their Continental sired calves.

mtnman

I would like to see the continental breeds take credit for their high choice and prme carcasses by starting their own branded beef program. We need a "Certified Continental Beef" program.

 

[MikeC]

Sad part is most of the competing breeds can hang heavier carcasses, and make a higher percentage of CAB when crossed with Angus, than straight Angus can, so they are a win/win situation.

Heavier weights, and higher percent premiums.

Some Continental guys I know love CAB, it allows them to make huge premiums on their Continental sired calves.

mtnman

I would like to see the continental breeds take credit for their high choice and prme carcasses by starting their own branded beef program. We need a "Certified Continental Beef" program.

Lloyd, I know you wrote this with a touch of sarcasm, but there are people who enjoy a leaner cut of beef. I believe that an upper 2/3 choice ribeye is approx. 6-8% fat. Too much for many who are "Fat" conscious eaters.

It is because of the USDA grading system that uses marbling as the main deciding factor in quality that drives the market now.

A "tenderness" designation is coming soon to a theater near you when the technology catches up.

 

[Frankie]

. It's a program created and paid for by the American Angus Association. Why should they include a breed that doesn't register their cattle with AAA in the CAB program?

This being the case, then please tell me why all the continental breeds are allowed to pass as CAB. They do not register their cattle with the AAA.

Come on, LA, you know the answer to this one. ANY animal can be CAB if it meets the specificiation, black, no dairy, quality, yield, etc. Most Red Angus are red; they cannot be CAB. The Red Angus Assn has several programs that use Red Angus cattle. But last time I looked at the specs, CAB wasn't one of them.

 

[mtnman]

Now, LA, don't be mad, it took a shot of Angus (1/4-1/2) to make those Continentals make such high CAB.

The Angus are just too dang fat to make it work as well as something that doesn't put on so much outside fat.

mtnman

 

[Frankie]

Yes, Red Angus was created from Angus genetics.

Red Angus and Black Angus were the same breed in the beginning with 2 different hair colors. Mr Hugh Watson who was one of the founders of the angus breed preferred the black cattle over the red ones so he would not let the reds be registered as Aberdeen Angus. If he would have preferred the reds then the blacks would not have been able to be registered as Aberdeen Angus which is what the original name was.

I'm surprised at this post. Hugh Watson preferred the blacks, but he in no way stopped them from being registered. It was the American Angus Association that made the decision to stop registering the reds. Hugh Watson didn't have any input on that decision. I'm sure he was dead by then. The Association could very well have decided to use red, but there were fewer of them, plus the red gene isn't dominant. For whatever reason, many years ago they decided not to register reds. I do all I can to get reds out of the breed. I won't knowingly use a bull that carrys the red gene. No offence intended to the Red Angus people, but I'm raising Angus and they're black.

 

[mtnman]

That's funny, frankie. Some days you just crack me up.


mtnman

 

[Frankie]

Why should they include a competing breed?

My dearest Frankie, "Competing" breeds are already included in the sale of CAB. But "Angus" is taking the credit for it.

That's the dishonesty that many talk about.

Mike, we know who dishonest when it comes to Angus, Red Angus and CAB. You're record speaks for you. You don't have a speck of credibilty on this topic. But don't let that stop you.

Is it the fault of the Angus Assn that most every breed infused Angus into their breed to try and earn the CAB premium? Nope. It's the fault of the "competing" breeds. If you're willing to sell your cattle as Angus, when you know better, that says more about you than the Angus Assn.

 

[Frankie]

"So, the question becomes, "How many Angus cattle here in the US do you think don't have Continental blood in them?"

Not many, I suspect.

I have a pasture full of them if you're interested. Henry Gardiner as a lot more. There's not a speck of Continental blood in my herd. I have the pedigrees to prove it and so does he. All you can do is speculate otherwise.

 

[Frankie]

Sad part is most of the competing breeds can hang heavier carcasses, and make a higher percentage of CAB when crossed with Angus, than straight Angus can, so they are a win/win situation.

Heavier weights, and higher percent premiums.

Some Continental guys I know love CAB, it allows them to make huge premiums on their Continental sired calves.

mtnman

Heavier carcasses can be discounted. And you have absolutely no proof that crossbred animals hit CAB at a higher rate than straightbred Angus.

Of course, continental breeders love CAB. I'm glad anyone is producing quality beef so consumers will come back for more. We still know that cattle sired by Angus bulls meet CAB specs at a higher rate. Your hot air and speculation doesn't change the documented facts.