CAB

[Frankie]

Lloyd, I know you wrote this with a touch of sarcasm, but there are people who enjoy a leaner cut of beef. I believe that an upper 2/3 choice ribeye is approx. 6-8% fat. Too much for many who are "Fat" conscious eaters.

It is because of the USDA grading system that uses marbling as the main deciding factor in quality that drives the market now.

A "tenderness" designation is coming soon to a theater near you when the technology catches up.

Laura's Lean beef is available just about anywhere CAB is sold. Nolan Ryan's Guaranteed Tender Lean Beef (or something like that) is also available. If anyone knows how many pounds these programs sell every year, I'd be interested in knowing.

Satisfaction is what drives the demand for high quality beef. People are not going to come back and pay a premium for CAB if they didn't like the last package they bought. You can bash it all you want, but consumers are voting for CAB with their pocketbooks. I can't think of a better recommendation.

 

[Frankie]

Now, LA, don't be mad, it took a shot of Angus (1/4-1/2) to make those Continentals make such high CAB.

1/4 or 1/2? What happened to that 2% or less Angus influence you were claiming earlier in this thread.

I said:

"How many black cattle here in the US do you think don't have Angus blood in them?"

and mtnman said:

None, they all do, about 2% or less. Big deal.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Now, LA, don't be mad, it took a shot of Angus (1/4-1/2) to make those Continentals make such high CAB.

The Angus are just too dang fat to make it work as well as something that doesn't put on so much outside fat.

mtnman

Not all continentals need 1/4-1/2 Angus to grade CAB. Cornell just harvested one of my 2/05 PB Macho sons (feedlot program) and he went Ch + YG 1 to CAB, 879# HCW, 17.7 REA, 0.3 BF. Now, he had black hide which meant there was SOME Angus somewhere along the line - but probably like 5%. I cannot for the life of me think any breed has that much influence on a trait, that 5% would change the carcass data of a particular breed. Angus is a great breed and Simm X Angus are great cattle and they compliment each other for many traits, but Simm CAN stand alone in grading carcasses - especially the new modern moderate framed steers.
Many moons ago, our daughter always raised a homegrown spotted red steer, or grey, or whatever her cow would have produced (purebred Simm) and show in 4-H. Many went Prime, YG 1, which would win the carcass contest (after having won [or close to it] in the live contest).

 

[msscamp]

I beleive that 'branded beef' marketing programs, of which there are many but CAB is the one of the most successful, are a very large part of the reason for increased consumption of beef. Should have limited that to the USA beef industry. Sorry Aussie.

Thanks for elaborating, I can appreciate where you're coming from.

 

[mtnman]

"I have a pasture full of them if you're interested. Henry Gardiner as a lot more. There's not a speck of Continental blood in my herd. I have the pedigrees to prove it and so does he. All you can do is speculate otherwise."


You are too funny, frankie. Like the paper from the Association is actually totally correct? I'm supposed to believe that? It's based on breeder honesty, nothing else. Not that all are dishonest, but some are. Most of these more popular breeders have cattle that go right back to very questionable pedigrees. Yours included.

Can't prove it or disprove it, but there are things that can be noticed about the cattle, and events that are quite questionable. Things that you are absolutely not even attuned to, since you are new to the breed. Yes, new to the breed, as in since the mid-80's. If you don't have solid ties to folks from the 50's-70's, you won't have a clue what I am talking about. You'll just think I'm a nut. But that's OK. I am. Don't kid yourself about your "pure" pedigrees, frankie. You are loaded up with questionable pedigrees top and bottom.

mtnman

 

[Frankie]

You are too funny, frankie. Like the paper from the Association is actually totally correct? I'm supposed to believe that? It's based on breeder honesty, nothing else. Not that all are dishonest, but some are. Most of these more popular breeders have cattle that go right back to very questionable pedigrees. Yours included.

Since you're so funny yourself, I take it as a compliment when I can make you laugh. There's nothing questionable in my cattle's pedigree. Since you don't know what they are, it's obvious that you're just blowing smoke.

Can't prove it or disprove it, but there are things that can be noticed about the cattle, and events that are quite questionable. Things that you are absolutely not even attuned to, since you are new to the breed. Yes, new to the breed, as in since the mid-80's. If you don't have solid ties to folks from the 50's-70's, you won't have a clue what I am talking about. You'll just think I'm a nut. But that's OK. I am. Don't kid yourself about your "pure" pedigrees, frankie. You are loaded up with questionable pedigrees top and bottom.

mtnman

No, you can't prove they aren't. I can prove they are. I have the pedigree to prove it. Every one of them sired by a blood tested, now DNA tested, animal. Just because they don't look like you think Angus should look, or perform like you think Angus should perform, doesn't make them questionable. We have a large, diverse breed. Whatever you want in cattle, big, little, heavy milk or not, high quality, high yield, you can get in the Angus breed.

And I don't think you're a nut; I think you're rude and jealous of Angus success. But that's just my opinion.

 

[mtnman]

See, frankie, there you go.

frankie, we've all looked up some of your pedigrees in the past.

Paper pedigrees prove nothing. Noone knows how truthful they are.

You can't prove anything about what happened in the 60's-70's.

I can't either, but I do have some folks that studied some pretty neat characteristics in the cattle at that time. I can tell you one thing, you don't make changes in cattle in one generation like they saw without new genes being introduced. I'm not talking about weight traits, milk, either. Other things that aren't even on your radar.

I suppose now after you've told me how diverse Angus are, you will tell me how uniform and predictable they are, too? I always like it when breeders try that one out.

mtnman

 

[Frankie]

See, frankie, there you go.

frankie, we've all looked up some of your pedigrees in the past.

"We" have? You got a mouse in your pocket, mtnman? I don't recall posting registration #s online.

Paper pedigrees prove nothing. Noone knows how truthful they are.

First, you've looked at pedigrees of my cattle. Now noone knows how truthful pedigrees are. That makes about as much sense as your other comments. I suppose you don't pay any attention to the pedigrees on bulls you buy? Too bad, they can be very helpful.

You can't prove anything about what happened in the 60's-70's.

And neither can you.

I can't either, but I do have some folks that studied some pretty neat characteristics in the cattle at that time. I can tell you one thing, you don't make changes in cattle in one generation like they saw without new genes being introduced. I'm not talking about weight traits, milk, either. Other things that aren't even on your radar.

Glad to see you admit that you're just running your mouth. That you don't have any facts, just hot air. Since we don't know what characteristics we're talking about, there's no way to actually discuss this. You don't want a discussion. You want to bash Angus. And again, your mysterious experts.

I suppose now after you've told me how diverse Angus are, you will tell me how uniform and predictable they are, too? I always like it when breeders try that one out.

mtnman

If you buy uniform Angus cows and breed them to uniform bulls, you should get uniform cattle. EPDs are very helpful in that goal.

 

[mtnman]

No point in discussing it with you, frankie.

You have no frame of reference for independent thought within your breed.

You sound just like most breeders, so standing on the same shaky foundation.

It's not shaky to you though, since you don't have enough history to see it.

That's OK, I don't buy cattle from you, so not my concern.

You may think what you want, but there is no way to control the genetics in cattle, unless you make the breedings yourself.

You have no idea what someone might have done 30-40 years ago, with the cattle you are using today, but you will defend it until the end that they are pure.

You have to, because you are tied to propping up your own grandstand on perception, rather than reality.

mtnman

 

[MikeC]

Is it the fault of the Angus Assn that most every breed infused Angus into their breed to try and earn the CAB premium? Nope. It's the fault of the "competing" breeds. If you're willing to sell your cattle as Angus, when you know better, that says more about you than the Angus Assn.

I thought you said CAB doesn't "HAVE" to be angus?????

I also thought you said that CAB was a "Quality" designation that was promoted by the angus folks????

Flip-Flop Flip-Flop Flip-Flop

How could someone who is trying to meet a "Quality" standard be dishonest if he were meeting that standard and the specs did not prohibit him?????????????????????

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz, You are a good one to talk about credibility.

Crawl back in your hole. I think you have lost it. :roll: :roll:

 

[mtnman]

See, now Mike, if other guys do it, it is their "fault", if the Angus guys do it, it is good business.

See what we are dealing with?

No one can compete with such unreasonableness.

mtnman

 

[la4angus]

You'll just think I'm a nut. But that's OK. I am.
mtnman

This is the one thinng that you posted that I can agree with, and many others on this board can too.
I'm glad that you finally admitted it. Thanks

 

[Frankie]

Is it the fault of the Angus Assn that most every breed infused Angus into their breed to try and earn the CAB premium? Nope. It's the fault of the "competing" breeds. If you're willing to sell your cattle as Angus, when you know better, that says more about you than the Angus Assn.

I thought you said CAB doesn't "HAVE" to be angus?????

It doesn't and nothing you've quoted said any different.

I also thought you said that CAB was a "Quality" designation that was promoted by the angus folks????

CAB is a high quality product and it's promoted by Angus people. Nothing you've quoted says anything different.

Flip-Flop Flip-Flop Flip-Flop

No, nothing I've quoted contridicts what you say.

How could someone who is trying to meet a "Quality" standard be dishonest if he were meeting that standard and the specs did not prohibit him?????????????????????

If you're complaining, as you do, about CAB being a dishonest program, yet you take the premium when you know your cattle aren't 100% Angus, you're dishonest. And that says more about you than the program. CAB is straightforward. The specs are available. They don't require a single drop of Angus blood. You continually say that's dishonest. Yet you have said you took CAB premiums on your cattle.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz, You are a good one to talk about credibility.

We know who's credible here. You continually claim Red Angus can be CAB, even though I posted an email from the RA Assn that said otherwise. You have claimed that CAB is dishonest because the animals don't have to be Angus, yet you take the premium.

Crawl back in your hole. I think you have lost it. :roll: :roll:

Don't think so.

 

[Frankie]

No point in discussing it with you, frankie.

Discussing what? All you do is bash Angus. You make vague references to someone who tells you stuff about Angus. Coffee Shop talk is only that.

You have no frame of reference for independent thought within your breed.
You sound just like most breeders, so standing on the same shaky foundation.

Why do I need indepenent thought? I'm raising Angus cattle. I belong to the Angus Assn. I think they do a good job with the breed. If I don't like what they do, I'll not renew my membership.

It's not shaky to you though, since you don't have enough history to see it.
That's OK, I don't buy cattle from you, so not my concern.

No, it's a very firm foundation as far as I'm concerned. You are still blowing hot air. Do you pay attention to the pedigrees of the bulls you buy? If so, why, if pedigrees aren't to be trusted.

You may think what you want, but there is no way to control the genetics in cattle, unless you make the breedings yourself.

You have no idea what someone might have done 30-40 years ago, with the cattle you are using today, but you will defend it until the end that they are pure.

:roll: Any breed is based on trust. By AIing all my cattle, I at least know that they have been blood/DNA tested pure. The Angus Assn issues a certificate saying they're registered Angus. You don't like it, that's ok. The Assn is registering more Angus cattle every year. The AAA membership continues to grow every year. That must really rub you the wrong way.

You have to, because you are tied to propping up your own grandstand on perception, rather than reality.

mtnman

More hot air and breed bashing.

 

[jnowack]

FRANKIE WROTE

Is it the fault of the Angus Assn that most every breed infused Angus into their breed to try and earn the CAB premium? Nope. It's the fault of the "competing" breeds. If you're willing to sell your cattle as Angus, when you know better, that says more about you than the Angus Assn.

FRANKIE

I REALLY ENJOY READING MOST OF YOUR COMMENTS. YOU SEEM TO BE WELL INFORMED AND HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. THIS ONE KIND OF STRUCK ME AS A LITTLE OFF KEY FOR YOU. SELLING BLACK CATTLE DOES NOT MEAN I AM TRYING TO PASS THEM OFF AS ANGUS. THE CAB PROGRAM KNOWINGLY BUYS NON ANGUS CATTLE AND SELLS THEM AS ANGUS. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THEM?
SORRY JUST GIVING YOU A HARD TIME ABOUT YOUR COMMENT. I THINK CAB IS A GREAT PROGRAM AND HAS MADE GOOD BLACK CATTLE OF ANY BREED WORTH A LOT MORE MONEY. I THINK MOST PEOPLE JUST GET TICKED OF THAT THE ANGUS BREED GETS ALL THE CREDIT AND HAS GAINED SO MUCH POPULARITY, PUBLICITY, AND NAME RECOGNITION FROM THE CAB PROGRAM. THE NAME ANGUS HAS BECOME SYNONAMOUS (SP?) WITH QUALITY BEEF IN THE MIND OF THE CONSUMER AND WHEN A NON-ANGUS BREEDER IS ASKED WHY ANGUS BEEF IS BETTER OVER AND OVER THEY GET UPSET. CAB IS PROBABLY THE MOST SUCCESSFUL PROMOTIONAL IDEA IN THE HISTORY OF THE BEEF BUSINESS. THAT MAKES IT A BIG TARGET FOR CRITICISM.

 

[jnowack]

FRANKIE

JUST ONE OTHER THING. I RAISE GELBVIEH AND I DO NOT CONSIDER THEM TO BE A "COMPETING" BREED WITH ANGUS, MORE OF A COMPLIMENTING BREED. OUR BULLS WORK GREAT TO CROSS WITH ANGUS. THE GELBVIEH WILL ADD MORE MUSCLE, MILK, PERFORMANCE, AND FERTILITY.

 

[la4angus]

Yes, Red Angus was created from Angus genetics.

Red Angus and Black Angus were the same breed in the beginning with 2 different hair colors. Mr Hugh Watson who was one of the founders of the angus breed preferred the black cattle over the red ones so he would not let the reds be registered as Aberdeen Angus. If he would have preferred the reds then the blacks would not have been able to be registered as Aberdeen Angus which is what the original name was.

I'm surprised at this post. Hugh Watson preferred the blacks, but he in no way stopped them from being registered. It was the American Angus Association that made the decision to stop registering the reds. Hugh Watson didn't have any input on that decision. I'm sure he was dead by then. The Association could very well have decided to use red, but there were fewer of them, plus the red gene isn't dominant. For whatever reason, many years ago they decided not to register reds. I do all I can to get reds out of the breed. I won't knowingly use a bull that carrys the red gene. No offence intended to the Red Angus people, but I'm raising Angus and they're black.

OK Frankie. I stated something wrong. Hugh Watson did not stop the Red Angus from being registered. He stopped them from being recorded in the Aberdeen Angus Herd Book from the beginning, which if I'm not mistaken he is the one that started it and had control of. I'm taking this off the top of my head because the book that I believe that this is in got disappeared last summer during Hurricane Rita when I was evacuated from one hospital to another and I had it in my room. You might oughta get a copy of Keith Evans Book, A Historic Angus Journey. from the Angus Journal and study it and also a copy of Tom Burke's book Angus Legends which you can order from Tom at the American Angus Hall of Fame at PH # 816 532 0811 or from the Angus Journal. If you don't have them, I would suggest that you buy them and study them as they have more info than CAB.

 

[MikeC]

Frankie:CAB is straightforward. The specs are available. They don't require a single drop of Angus blood.

Frankie:you take the premium when you know your cattle aren't 100% Angus, you're dishonest.

Either I'm missing something here or Frankie has become crazy as a loon. :lol: :lol:

Just for the record:

CAB= "CERTIFIED ANGUS BEEF
Certified= To confirm formally as true, accurate, or genuine.
Angus= A breed of cattle
Beef= Muscle cuts of meat from bovines

 

[mtnman]

I agree, Jeanne.

I was just telling people about this particular set of cattle.

A couple purebred Simmie guys I know regularly hit 80%+ CAB with their blacks that are only a couple percent Angus. It's no secret to them, but it is to the Angus guys used to only thinking inside their own box.

Lot's of them think they are onto something if they make 50% CAB, better than 2x the national acceptance rate. Little do they know many of these black Continental guys are making specs at better than 4x the national rate, consistently, they just don't brag about it.

Of course, the Angus guys like to think it's that 2% Angus that makes them work. It is, I guess, it makes them black, but doesn't do anything for carcass quality.

Maybe some of these high growth, fertile Angus are 2% Simmental.

mtnman

 

[topsquar]

those high growth Angus have more then 2% of another breed:lol: more like 15% chi in there breeding. If they ever had perormance figures between breeds , the Angus breed would look poor, most continental breeds beat Angus on GROWTH, BEEF YEILD, MILK, BIRTH TO WEANING WEIGHTS, FEED CONVERSION TO MUSCLE, Angus cattle are very overated. ;-) alot of euro breeds have obtained poor calving ease because people have used big euro bulls over dumpy frame 2 Angus cows or heifers. if someone put 10 steaks in front of you and said one of them is from an Angus, pick which one I bet you couldnt. ;-)