CAB President coming to class

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Jogeephus

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Few questions.

What percent angus do you think they need to be to be considered worthy of the CAB program?

If its 100%, then do you think they could meet the demands for CAB beef? If not, might this not open the door for alternative brands?

If you are going to use genetic testing then could this not also be used to prove non-papered calves are angus or is the paper just a one way street?
 
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FarmGirl10

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I think to qualify they should be atleast 50% Angus and have the tag.
 

pdfangus

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well the current standard by default is 50%

so I think that should be the current minimum.

I would like to see a long range plan for the minimum to go to at least 75%.

this would hopefully enhance demand for those angus influenced females.

Quality considerations are limiting demand now and not hide color.

On a different theme we as a breed have been chasing the tail of carcass epd's for enough years now to make a difference and I do not see a difference being made.

The epds are not the problem. In the early days epd's were generated from carcass data and now they are generated from sonogram data. I do not believe the two are highly correlated as they are touted to be.

If they are why are angus carcasses in general not showing significantly improved quality and yield grades and why are so few hitting the CAB specs.

Oh that's right......a passel of them are not angus at all. Yet they are eligible for CAB.
 

alacattleman

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pdfangus":2un4jusn said:
well the current standard by default is 50%

so I think that should be the current minimum.

I would like to see a long range plan for the minimum to go to at least 75%.
this would hopefully enhance demand for those angus influenced females.

Quality considerations are limiting demand now and not hide color.

On a different theme we as a breed have been chasing the tail of carcass epd's for enough years now to make a difference and I do not see a difference being made.

The epds are not the problem. In the early days epd's were generated from carcass data and now they are generated from sonogram data. I do not believe the two are highly correlated as they are touted to be.

If they are why are angus carcasses in general not showing significantly improved quality and yield grades and why are so few hitting the CAB specs.

Oh that's right......a passel of them are not angus at all. Yet they are eligible for CAB.
me to,
 

3waycross

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[

Very good point. IMO, it's obvious that Angus has done a great marketing job - so much so it's being used by many breeds. This will ultimately lead to the demise of CAB. There will be a point where "certified angus beef" is meaningless - at that point Angus will be in trouble.[/quote]

Believe when I say I am not picking a fight when I make this statement but the problem with CAB is of it's own making. They have created a BRAND not a product.
The success of the brand has led to the inclusion of other breeds under the branded label. The problem is not so much that it will lead to the demise of CAB but that it will lead to the Angus breeders losing a piece of the pie to blk cattle that have little or no Angus influence.
The only solution to this is to make a gene test the First or Last take your pick qualifier for inclusion in CAB. That obviously will add a lot of cost.
The thing to remember is that as long as CAB doesn't lower the other qualifiers then the beef itself is still the same.

If I am wrong please explain why[/quote]

3 Way.

this is exactly what I have been trying to say......

actually I think using registered angus bulls and keeping good records could be the initial screening criteria. Same data as for age and source verification with the addition of known sire registration numbers. Not saying that the exact sire of every calf has to be identified but that all bulls in the group would be registered angus.

list of cows exposed
list of registered bulls
exposure dates
calving dates
weaning dates.
If a non registerd angus bull was in the bull group then the group does not qualify for initial screening.
genetic testing could be done to settle disputes.[/quote]

Well then we will see if people wat to pay as much for REAL CAB as they can now for Wagyu. If this would fly every brood cow in every herd(certified) would have to be gene tested and you would have to have source verification on every animal, and of course still do the gene test on every animal BEFORE it was killed.


Funny thing is right now I can breed my Homo Blk Gelbvieh females to RA bulls and get a 50% testable CAB eligible product and there ain't much Blk angus there for sure
But who's to say it won't make the CAB specs. and it's still Angus. Unless someone cares to post a "LINK" that says that igenity can differentiate between RA and Blk A on their test, and I DO NOT ,mean by testing for homo or hetero blk
 

cypressfarms

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FarmGirl10":qyhg4jyl said:
I think to qualify they should be atleast 50% Angus and have the tag.


If that would be the case then this heifer's (pictured below)calves would qualify if she were bred to an Angus. The calves from her would be 70% angus if bred to a full blooded angus bull:



heifer2-3.jpg
 

3waycross

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cypressfarms":1qt9svg5 said:
FarmGirl10":1qt9svg5 said:
I think to qualify they should be atleast 50% Angus and have the tag.


If that would be the case then this heifer's (pictured below)calves would qualify if she were bred to an Angus. The calves from her would be 70% angus if bred to a full blooded angus bull:



heifer2-3.jpg

Only if they came out BLK.
 

VanC

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Alan":3qbmvmrg said:
just to stir the pot a question I might ask the CAB President is;

How would I go about getting my purebred Red Angus steers into the Certified Angus Beef system? Oh and BTW Mr. President my PUREBRED red Angus steers quailify for Certified Hereford Beef. Bottom line is what exactly does the words CERTIFIED ANGUS mean in regards to CAB?


I would love to ask the same of the CHB President.

Just stirring,
Alan

Alan,

Purebred Red Angus do not qualify for Certified Hereford Beef, unless you've got some with a white face. ;-)

http://www.hereford.org/seedstock/chb-h ... rified-faq
 

VanC

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3waycross":3k7cpm2k said:
cypressfarms":3k7cpm2k said:
FarmGirl10":3k7cpm2k said:
I think to qualify they should be atleast 50% Angus and have the tag.


If that would be the case then this heifer's (pictured below)calves would qualify if she were bred to an Angus. The calves from her would be 70% angus if bred to a full blooded angus bull:



heifer2-3.jpg

Only if they came out BLK.

They don't have to be black anymore. Calves that are sired by an Angus bull and are entered in the AngusSource program can be any color. They can't, however, show obvious dairy or Brahman influence, and they still have to meet the carcass specifications.

The funny thing about CAB is that it's possible that a black calf with no Angus blood would qualify. Not likely, but possible. It's also possible that a calf whose sire and dam are both Angus might not qualify. Rare, but I'm sure it's happened.
 

cypressfarms

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VanC":2779plqz said:
They don't have to be black anymore. Calves that are sired by an Angus bull and are entered in the AngusSource program can be any color. They can't, however, show obvious dairy or Brahman influence, and they still have to meet the carcass specifications.

That's almost laughable. This 1/2 longhorn heifer (with 40% angus blood) could be bred to an angus bull and the resulting calf would be CAB. No dairy or brahman influence. So VanC, you could actually have a paint CAB calf?
 

Alan

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VanC":34ntw9wu said:
Alan":34ntw9wu said:
just to stir the pot a question I might ask the CAB President is;

How would I go about getting my purebred Red Angus steers into the Certified Angus Beef system? Oh and BTW Mr. President my PUREBRED red Angus steers quailify for Certified Hereford Beef. Bottom line is what exactly does the words CERTIFIED ANGUS mean in regards to CAB?


I would love to ask the same of the CHB President.

Just stirring,
Alan

Alan,

Purebred Red Angus do not qualify for Certified Hereford Beef, unless you've got some with a white face. ;-)

http://www.hereford.org/seedstock/chb-h ... rified-faq


Okay, my intent was to cause trouble, not be 100% correct :D . This CAB issue has been covered too many times to be counted. But it does sound like I missed something or things with CAB and CHB may have changed. I thought to be either CAB or CHB the animal has to be 51% black or red and a beef type animal... as usual I may be wrong. I'll find a new spoon to stir the next pot. :D

Alan
 

VanC

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cypressfarms":2oblb81i said:
VanC":2oblb81i said:
They don't have to be black anymore. Calves that are sired by an Angus bull and are entered in the AngusSource program can be any color. They can't, however, show obvious dairy or Brahman influence, and they still have to meet the carcass specifications.

That's almost laughable. This 1/2 longhorn heifer (with 40% angus blood) could be bred to an angus bull and the resulting calf would be CAB. No dairy or brahman influence. So VanC, you could actually have a paint CAB calf?

I doubt if too many calves sired by Angus bulls would end up looking like your heifer but, yes, it would be CAB eligible if it was entered in the AngusSource program and had a tag that shows that it was sired by an Angus bull. That's the first step. The next step is to pass the carcass requirements, which are pretty stringent. Only then does it become CAB. Only about 8 to 10% of cattle that pass the first test, whether it's by hide color or AngusSource, actually become CAB.
 

VanC

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Alan":2hbh0y5w said:
VanC":2hbh0y5w said:
Alan":2hbh0y5w said:
just to stir the pot a question I might ask the CAB President is;

How would I go about getting my purebred Red Angus steers into the Certified Angus Beef system? Oh and BTW Mr. President my PUREBRED red Angus steers quailify for Certified Hereford Beef. Bottom line is what exactly does the words CERTIFIED ANGUS mean in regards to CAB?


I would love to ask the same of the CHB President.

Just stirring,
Alan

Alan,

Purebred Red Angus do not qualify for Certified Hereford Beef, unless you've got some with a white face. ;-)

http://www.hereford.org/seedstock/chb-h ... rified-faq


Okay, my intent was to cause trouble, not be 100% correct :D . This CAB issue has been covered too many times to be counted. But it does sound like I missed something or things with CAB and CHB may have changed. I thought to be either CAB or CHB the animal has to be 51% black or red and a beef type animal... as usual I may be wrong. I'll find a new spoon to stir the next pot. :D

Alan

Alan,

I haven't been feeling well lately. Don't worry, nothing serious, but I'm going to bed now. I'll try to revisit this tomorrow night if you're still interested.
 
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FarmGirl10

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Well he came into class yestereday and said that they aren't going to change to a required %Angus.
 

3waycross

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FarmGirl10":2bogx8uz said:
Well he came into class yestereday and said that they aren't going to change to a required %Angus.


Well I guess those of us who own all those other black cattle can breathe a little easier today.
 

ga.prime

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FarmGirl10":3guat05m said:
Well he came into class yestereday and said that they aren't going to change to a required %Angus.
The supply would dry up if they did. I like the way it is.
 

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