Burnt hay

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hillsdown

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I bought some hard core second cut alfalfa hay last fall . It was pretty much cut and baled the same time as ours in Sept. and should have been put up dry as we hadn't had any rain since July. Well so far I have fed 4 bales and all of them are burnt all the way through starting about 6 inches in . They look really nice on the outside but the inside is a burnt mess. Really disgusted about it as it was not cheap and it is hay bought specifically for the 4H steers and yearling bulls . :devil2:

A couple of questions >
First is there any nutritional value in the hay at all ?
Second what would have caused it ,if in fact it was baled dry .

Thanks !
 
I've heard of moldy hay but I guess I'm not sure what you mean by burnt hay. Can you explain.

Animals won't usually eat something bad for them unless they are starving. Put a bale out and see if they will eat it but make sure they are not all that hungry. If they wont touch it even after it's been out there 5 hours you have your answer.
 
The hay is burnt .not moldy . They do eat it without issue, but if it is burnt the how much nutritional value would be left ...

It was as if the hay field had been torched and someone baled it, however the hayfield was not burnt as we hauled it off of there ourselves and everything looked normal . The only other time I have seen bales burnt was when they were baled wet or damp with a hard core baler and then stacked so that they smoldered or sometimes actually caught on fire . Much more common with squares are small squares though .
:?
 
Aaron":1v35esg9 said:
I think you mean to say that it is carmalized?

No, it is not even that Aaron . We have had caramelized green feed before, it was not at all like this . It is burnt and charcoal like . I will take pics tomorrow when it is light out .
 
Hay that is put up wet will go through a heat and will cook the inside black. I don't know of the Haag is any good but the cows will clean it all up.
 
circlew":1q740cv0 said:
Hay that is put up wet will go through a heat and will cook the inside black. I don't know of the Haag is any good but the cows will clean it all up.

circlew is right about the clean up. I bought some Rye hay that is in the same shape. Looks great on outside but about a foot in it gets dark and middle is black. It looks like dried tobacco. To me it smells like the inside of a cigar shop. Crazy thing is my cows love it. I can set out a roll of good fescue/clover mix and they will stand at the rye has until it is all gone. I don't even put a ring around it because they won't lay in it or waste a drop. From a distance it looks molded but it is burnt up. Good thing is the people I bought it from saw it setting in my field and said it must have went through a heat. They brought me replacements for every roll. I actually set it out now for a treat!!! I would like to know if it ruined the nutritional value as well.
 
I had some alfalfa rounds awhile back that we're all black on the inside and smelled like red man tobacco. Cows loved it. I was feeding it to heavy breds too and didn't affect them any.
 
hillsdown":34ll5q5l said:
I bought some hard core second cut alfalfa hay last fall . It was pretty much cut and baled the same time as ours in Sept. and should have been put up dry as we hadn't had any rain since July. Well so far I have fed 4 bales and all of them are burnt all the way through starting about 6 inches in . They look really nice on the outside but the inside is a burnt mess. Really disgusted about it as it was not cheap and it is hay bought specifically for the 4H steers and yearling bulls . :devil2:

A couple of questions >
First is there any nutritional value in the hay at all ?
Second what would have caused it ,if in fact it was baled dry .

Thanks !

I gotta admit I am clueless about the burnt hay you are speaking of ... could you take a pic and post it?
 
I was feeding cows with an old farmer one day and he told me of a time that he had some smoldering round bales, but didn't know it. He said he found out real quick when he backed the feed truck up to the bale and ran the hay spear thru the bale, I guess when the outside air and oxygen got to the the hot center, the bale exploded into a huge fireball. That'd make you pucker fast.....
 
piedmontese":3ri92nr9 said:
I had some alfalfa rounds awhile back that we're all black on the inside and smelled like red man tobacco. Cows loved it. I was feeding it to heavy breds too and didn't affect them any.

That is the smell I'm talking about. I have a bell that broke lose laying in barn and ever time I open gate to get hay out they run in to steal some! They love it.
 
midtncattle":3bkpq4as said:
piedmontese":3bkpq4as said:
I had some alfalfa rounds awhile back that we're all black on the inside and smelled like red man tobacco. Cows loved it. I was feeding it to heavy breds too and didn't affect them any.

That is the smell I'm talking about. I have a bell that broke lose laying in barn and ever time I open gate to get hay out they run in to steal some! They love it.


Do they spit when they chew their cud? :lol:
 
To me it sounds like it had enough moisture to go through a fermentation and is in fact ensiled. I have seen alfalfa like that, color looks awful, feed value was good and cattle ate it. Only way to know for sure on value is to watch cows and see what condition does (cheap route) or test it (better route). Hay was brown, not black or green.
 
piedmontese":pv3uzwun said:
I had some alfalfa rounds awhile back that we're all black on the inside and smelled like red man tobacco. Cows loved it. I was feeding it to heavy breds too and didn't affect them any.

Had that happen to Bermuda too. Cows loved it and it did smell just like chewing tobacco. I checked with an expert and was told the nutritional value was reduced but it was still suitable feed just not as good. Never heard of it charring though. If its charred, I wouldn't think it would be good for anything.
 
here's some info I found on it

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/agr/agr171/agr171.htm



In general, some loss in dry matter and quality is associated with these changes initially occurring after baling. A rule-of thumb useful in estimating yield loss of round bale hay is that 1 percent of original yield will be lost for each 1 percent moisture that is lost as stored hay reaches its equilibrium storage moisture. For example, if hay is baled at 20 percent moisture and then dries to 14 percent during storage, it will suffer a dry matter yield loss of about 6 percent.

Baling above 20 percent moisture without taking steps to reduce the microbial activity responsible for this heating may result in substantial quality loss. The extent of fungal growth during hay storage is a function of moisture content. Under normal conditions, the evaporation of water helps to dissipate heat generated by microbial growth on moist hay. The extent of heat damage can be assessed by looking at the color change during hay storage. Heating of moist hay causes a chemical reaction that fuses plant sugar and amino acids into an indigestible product called the Maillard product. Protein bound up in this process is called heat-damaged protein and is unavailable for animals. When hay heats sufficiently to cause a very dark brown to black color, its protein may be nearly indigestible.

Since heat movement in dry hay is slower than in moist hay, the movement of heat from the center to the outside of the bale slows down as the surface layers begin to dry. This causes the internal bale temperatures to increase rapidly after much of the surface moisture appears to have been removed. This can cause hay to catch fire due to spontaneous combustion if respiration and microbial heating raise temperatures greater than 170 degrees F. However, when spontaneous combustion occurs, it does not originate in the center of the round bale, but nearer the outside, because oxygen levels in the middle of the bale are usually too low for combustion to occur.

Dustiness in moist hay following storage consists largely of fungal spores produced during this microbial growth. Although numerous bacteria are present in hay, fungi account for most of the microbial growth during hay storage. Mold spores contribute to colic in horses and are responsible for significant economic losses to this important Kentucky livestock industry. Breathing spores of the fungus Aspergillus fumigatus during the handling of moldy hay can cause farmer's lung, a sometimes debilitating disease in which the fungus grows in human lung tissue. Hay with a significant amount of mold and mold spores can be used in cattle rations because cattle are less sensitive.
 
Here is a pic of the bale , nice and leafy ,very green.


This is what it looks like as you get inside it .




Charred , no leaves just burnt stems. Second cut alfalfa is bought for a reason and I expect it to be at least 16% protein ,which is what he said it would be . Not impressed and because of the feed shortages everywhere , I am going to make him replace the bales at his expense which will probably be $150.00 a bale about now . If I wanted to feed plain roughage then I would have bought more straw. He obviously baled it too soon after cutting without letting it cure .
 
I've seen this before in hay, even if it didnt get rained on it can be baled wet and cause this. The hay I saw was good till the very center of the bale and that was hard,burnt, and smelled awe full. If you bought this hay I would definetly show the seller and try to trade for better stuff. I baled for a guy one year and he was hauling/stacking bales as I was baling his hay. Two days later we were both moving those bales apart to let them "sweat out". Cows ate it fine and he hasn't stacked that quick since then. I pulled my bale sticker out of them bales and I couldn't touch even touch it, it was so hot.
 
The best kind is Canadian thistle. It can yield 7 to 8 tons per acre but it never drys, so you just bale it wet and put it into a tight row. The outside of the bale turns into a dark crust and the inside turns into "thistlage".
 

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