bulls

Help Support CattleToday:

I'm a small breeder hobby farmer whatever you want to call it. I find it better to have a bull on hand at all times. I paid 1700.00 for my young bull haven't seen a calf yet he's only 1 year,but here's my reasoning:
When you AI I hear you still need a clean up bull for those that miss.
I don't have the time to watch for heats nor to take them to the vet to catch them in heat.
I can always sell the bull when I'm done or should his calves not fit where I'm trying to go.
I will AI one of my cows because there's a certain bull that I love and can't buy him he's dead and the semen is the next best thing to him.
I just find it easier and better to have a bull on hand. All cows get bred and if not its easier to point out why.
 
bigbull338":1yurpv2s said:
you must be living in a prefect world if you think that.an heres why 15 cows 1/2 conceive thats 7 cows.8 on 2nd heat 4 conceive.4 to breed 2 conceive.2 left to breed 1 conceive.thats 4 or 5 breedings.wich means your days open would be 160 to 200 days to get all cows bred AI.
Maybe A.I. can have great result or poor results. Heres what we do we breed on natural heats one time and get 65-70% then It's the bulls get turned out. Anything that doesn't calve in the 60 day window gets a ride to town. We may have better than avg. results my wife breeds our cows she grew up on a dairy A.I. cows and has a degree in reproduction. That may give us an advantage over avg.

I think your costs are to high and you have poor results.That being said I would still have a bull if I only had 15 comm.cows open cows cost you more money than a so so bull you can turn after breeding season.
 
If you're getting less then 75% first service conceptions either your heat detection skills or AI skills need some work or the cows need to find a home in the freezer. Ours get 2 bites at the apple, that's it. We've only had one in a good many years that would have required more then that, she had an infection in the ankle joint, she's in someones freezer now. With proper handling a tank can be hauled around a lot without having any problems. I used to haul my tank 365 days a year and did that for better then 8 years and never had a problem. That was back in the custom AI days, that tank covered a whole lot of miles and when I sold the business I got 1/2 the price I had paid for the tank.
ABS and I'm sure the other studs have specials on semen when you can get a discount. There are a lot of good bulls available in the 16-20 buck range.
We used a bull for cleanup in 2006 and again in 2007. He's down the road and there will never be another bull on the place. Never used a cleanup bull before, don;t see any sense in doing it again. Using natural heats our normal calving season ran around 52 days, with a bull it ended up 170 days. Since I wasn;t doing the heat detection I didn;t see the late breeders.
 
irked":35t0kohg said:
there is something else that really irks me.

let's consider this a brief lesson. let's call it something that will make it easy for some of you beginners and hobbyists to remember. cattle production 101 should be easy enough for all of you to remember. after all, learning about cattle production is why many of us are gathered here together on the beginners forum. now, within cattle production 101 we will have what i shall refer to as the m&m principle.

this m&m principle is of the utmost importance and i chose to call it that because some of you probably make more informed choices about your candy than you do your breeding decisions. so, if it helps you to become better cattle producers, think of candy. more importantly, think m&m's.

this principle is proven true by many of you on a daily basis. the pictures that you post both here and on the breeds forum are a testimony to the validity of this principle. i suspect that your checks from the auction barn would lend added validity to this principle.

beginners and hobbyists need to buy good bulls too. commercial cattlemen can fudge to some extent within the cowherd. quality in phenotype can be overlooked to some degree in the brood cow to be sure that we have a cowherd that is adapted environmentally to our area. in other words, in a commercial operation, the ugly little cow that works for us can still be profitable. she doesn't have to be a front pasture type of cow to earn her keep for a commercial operator.

not so with bull selection. bulls must be selected that will complement those cows to produce offspring to fit a market. either a market for feeder calves or replacement females. (keeping in mind that one of the markets for replacement females might just be the market that we make within our own herd for those replacements.)

in either case, feeder cattle or replacements, the bull is of the utmost importance. bull selection allows us to run the type of low input females that work in our environments and still produce a calf that will excel in the market that we have previously determined. with this in mind, bull selection should be accorded much more thought so that he will complement all that we have within the cowherd. the bull has to complement both the pretty cow and the ugly cow. working at selecting for this complement is what helps us to achieve that goal of producing something to fit that predetermined market.

it's clear to me that some of you aren't aware of that relationship. it's clear that some of you think that freshening a cow is all it takes to be a big time cattle producer. I see some pictures here this morning that really makes me think some of you buy bulls off of the packers truck. that really irks me.

maybe you think you get a bargain? not in the long run. not for yourself and surely not for the rest of us who are serious about producing cattle. all of you must remember that feeder cattle of poor genotype are oftentimes poorly performing cattle. those poorly performing cattle take capital out of the cattle industry. that is why your poor breeding decisions become my business too.


let's conclude for the day by reviewing the m&m principle:

mongrels & mutts beget mongrels & mutts

No matter how irked you are your manner is very condescending, most people will not listen to or learn from someone who speaks to them that way.

You need to read Dale Carnagie's book. How to win friends and influence people.
 
:clap: :clap: :clap: Well even with a girlfriend he might be irked but he'd be irked "with a smile on his face". :lol2: :lol2:
 
personal comments aside, this has been an interesting discussion. the personal comments no longer irk me. along with it's bullies, every internet forum that i have ever visited has it's sensitive types. if any of you expect me to preface my thoughts with: no offense intended, you will have a long wait.

i agree with the poster who suggested that people should present photos for the learning opportunity. however, shouldn't that be done before the purchase instead of after? and most certainly it should be done before turning the purchase out with the cows where he might breed something. in my experience, i've rarely seen anyone willing to admit that they made a mistake immediately after purchase. for some reason, they resort to the argument of:

i think i'll wait and see how his calves turn out.

i understand the idea that the proof in the pudding is the calf on the ground. or more importantly, the calf across the scales. but, quite often, waiting to see how the sorry bull's calves turn out turns into several calf crops. mongrels & mutts beget mongrels & mutts. multiplied by an infinite number of calving seasons.

i also like the suggestion to put the burden of selection on a reputable breeder. anyone who asks me to select something for them is assured of getting the very best i have. it's all about reputation. in most cases, reputations that have taken years to develop won't be squandered for the opportunity to sell you something that isn't what you want or need.

it's never a mistake for everyone to pursue the best genetics that they can afford. that doesn't mean that everyone should be looking at the $5000 bull. if it takes baby steps to get to where you need to be, that is the thing to do. i believe that the herd sire is the single most important investment a commercial cattleman can make when it comes to determining profitability. you should at least give your bull purchase as much thought as you give to deciding on the color of the king ranch pickup that you have convinced yourself you need to be a successful rancher.
 

Latest posts

Top