Bull Question

[Cuttin_up]

New guy here with a few basic questions, hoping maybe some you all could help out.
I just got 35 heifers back in the spring and now I'm shopping for a bull to put on them in the next couple of months.  My problem is after breeding season.  I only have 100 acres and it's one pasture. There is no way to separate the bull after breeding season. I don't think I want to leave him out there with the girls any longer than 3 months. What are my options here? Do you small time guys always pull him off? I would rather not build an area for him because I'm leasing the land. Any suggestions?
 

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

We're running 5 bulls. We always leave the bull with HIS females after breeding. As such the bull is more content, not prone to wander away or breach a fence, etc. After all, the bull can only breed (get her pregnant, that is) the female one time in her heat...once she's settled, she is set until calving.

As long as the bull is yours and there aren't neighbor's females across the fence coming into heat, the bull is ok with his females and much more content.

 

[bigbull338]

as said id leave him with the heifers.because as said he will be more content.a lone bull will start roaming.

 

[Cuttin_up]

We're running 5 bulls. We always leave the bull with HIS females after breeding. As such the bull is more content, not prone to wander away or breach a fence, etc. After all, the bull can only breed (get her pregnant, that is) the female one time in her heat...once she's settled, she is set until calving.

As long as the bull is yours and there aren't neighbor's females across the fence coming into heat, the bull is ok with his females and much more content.

Thanks for the reponse. If you leave him with his females year round how do you control the timing of your calving season?

 

[MO_cows]

That will work for awhile. Fast forward to after you have some calves, are you planning on keeping any heifers? You don't want them bred too small/young. And a little farther into the future when your calving season might become year-round. For now it's fine but look down the road a little.

 

[Txwalt]

I pull the bull within 30days of the first calf that hits the ground. Basically he's in there about 9 months a year. If you want to control the breeding season you will have to pull the bull at some point. We have a seperate place to put the bull. We always move the bull and whatever we are culling to keep him company.

Walt

 

[Brute 23]

Leave him in there and sell or seperate and heifer calves before they could possibly be bred.

 

[Limomike]

What kind of heifers are they? Some breed earlier than others, so it might not be wise to leave the bull in with them after they are around 6-7 months old. Otherwise, wean the calves and sell em, and you won't have to worry about what to do with the bull.

 

[grubbie]

You can leave your bull with the cows as said. BUT, (after your cows are bred), if someone puts cows in the pasture next to you that are not bred and they cycle, the bull will go through a barb wire fence to get to them. If the cows that they put in next to you are bred, you should be fine. If they put a bull in next to yours, again, you will probably end up repairing fences. They start fighting across the fence and pay no attention at all to a wire fence of any kind.

 

[dun]

If you preg check after say 60 days form when your breeding season should be and sell any late or open cows/heifers you can control your calving season.
After breeding season (45 days) we pull the bull and turn him into a pasture away from the cows along with a big steer for company. At weaning we preg check and turn him back in with the cows and finish the steer for the freezer. About a month before calving is due to start we pull him and his buddy (the next steer we've decided to keep for the freezer) again and turn them into a separate pasture.

 

[Cuttin_up]

What kind of heifers are they? Some breed earlier than others, so it might not be wise to leave the bull in with them after they are around 6-7 months old. Otherwise, wean the calves and sell em, and you won't have to worry about what to do with the bull.

These heifers are ¾ Angus ¼ Limousin. After weening I plan on selling all calves.
I'm trying to think this through in my head. If I have calves on the ground next year around mid-September 2010, then in 2011 would I not be dropping calves in the middle of the summer if I didn't pull my bull?

 

[dun]

What kind of heifers are they? Some breed earlier than others, so it might not be wise to leave the bull in with them after they are around 6-7 months old. Otherwise, wean the calves and sell em, and you won't have to worry about what to do with the bull.

These heifers are ¾ Angus ¼ Limousin. After weening I plan on selling all calves.
I'm trying to think this through in my head. If I have calves on the ground next year around mid-September 2010, then in 2011 would I not be dropping calves in the middle of the summer if I didn't pull my bull?

Some of them yes, maybe all. But the slow breeders will drag it out longer. Eventually you'll be calving all year. Some people like to do it that way. I want to get it done as fast as possible. Stress for a shorter period both for me and the cows/calves plus it gives you a larger group to sell at one time.

 

[SRBeef]

I would subdivide that 100 acre pasture and rotationally graze different areas one at a time. Hopefully you have good perimeter fences to start with. If you are not familiar with them, learn about electric fencing.

At weaning time, separate the calves off into one section with a good fence between the cows/bull and the calves. There should be an electric wire on standoffs on the calf side. This is called fenceline weaning. About a month before the cows calve and about 3 months after weaning, I sort the cows/heifers away from the bull and put all the steer calves on the bull side. This leaves you with all the females on one side of the fence and the bull and steers on the other.

As mentioned above, your biggest problem will be any females or another bull in an adjacent pasture. As a fellow beginner I was very concerned about this also when my neighbor had a big old rent-a-bull on his side of an older barb wire fence along with my younger bull on my side of our shared fence.

I fixed the fence/tightened wires as best I could and put up very hot (6 joule) electric wires on 5" plastic standoffs on BOTH sides of this old fence and it was the only thing that would control these bulls as far as I can see. The older one especially would come up and stomp and bellow but neither of them would get too close to the hot wire. If it was just barb I'm sure it would not have kept them apart.

Getting started with 35 head or so (or really any number!) you really need to look at good fences, good water and some sort of working/sorting facility, in my opinion.

I do not have the facilities to "pull the bull", nor am I finding you need to. If you have a good bull he will do his job in one or two 21 day cycles at most. Make sure you have a bull with a recent BSE. Leave him in.

My system is that when the first calf hits the ground (about 283 days after bull-in date) a clock starts ticking. At this point there is nothing you can do but wait for calves, however any cow not calving within 45 days of when the first one hits the ground goes for a trailer ride with her calf to be sold as a pair or 3-for-1. No exceptions. This keeps your herd fertile and your calving season tight. I want most calves born in a 21 day period (first cycle) but with 35 heifers and one bull he may need two cycles to hit them all.

And 283 days of when you want calving to begin (April 1 here) you put the bull and any steers still around back in with the cows and calves and they are one big happy family until the process starts all over again at weaning.

I would suggest you consider rotational grazing of that one pasture. With this system , however you really just need one good hot fence down the middle to divide the pasture into two sections. Good luck.

Jim

 

[farmwriter]

You very likely will have one or two that don't breed back on schedule, especially if the first calf is pulling them down any at all. If you want to keep your calving season tight, Dun's got a good plan.
Avg gestation period for cattle is 283 days. So if first calf is born Nov 1 2010, and the cow has first heat 30 to 45 days later and is bred then, she will calve in early-mid Sept of 2011.

Rotational grazing is a good practice as Jim recommends, but I can also understand your reluctance to put in the labor and money of fencing on property you don't own. Any chance owner would cut you a deal based on your 'improvement' to the land?

 

[Cuttin_up]

I would subdivide that 100 acre pasture and rotationally graze different areas one at a time. Hopefully you have good perimeter fences to start with. If you are not familiar with them, learn about electric fencing.

At weaning time, separate the calves off into one section with a good fence between the cows/bull and the calves. There should be an electric wire on standoffs on the calf side. This is called fenceline weaning. About a month before the cows calve and about 3 months after weaning, I sort the cows/heifers away from the bull and put all the steer calves on the bull side. This leaves you with all the females on one side of the fence and the bull and steers on the other.

As mentioned above, your biggest problem will be any females or another bull in an adjacent pasture. As a fellow beginner I was very concerned about this also when my neighbor had a big old rent-a-bull on his side of an older barb wire fence along with my younger bull on my side of our shared fence.

I fixed the fence/tightened wires as best I could and put up very hot (6 joule) electric wires on 5" plastic standoffs on BOTH sides of this old fence and it was the only thing that would control these bulls as far as I can see. The older one especially would come up and stomp and bellow but neither of them would get too close to the hot wire. If it was just barb I'm sure it would not have kept them apart.

Getting started with 35 head or so (or really any number!) you really need to look at good fences, good water and some sort of working/sorting facility, in my opinion.

I do not have the facilities to "pull the bull", nor am I finding you need to. If you have a good bull he will do his job in one or two 21 day cycles at most. Make sure you have a bull with a recent BSE. Leave him in.

My system is that when the first calf hits the ground (about 283 days after bull-in date) a clock starts ticking. At this point there is nothing you can do but wait for calves, however any cow not calving within 45 days of when the first one hits the ground goes for a trailer ride with her calf to be sold as a pair or 3-for-1. No exceptions. This keeps your herd fertile and your calving season tight. I want most calves born in a 21 day period (first cycle) but with 35 heifers and one bull he may need two cycles to hit them all.

And 283 days of when you want calving to begin (April 1 here) you put the bull and any steers still around back in with the cows and calves and they are one big happy family until the process starts all over again at weaning.

I would suggest you consider rotational grazing of that one pasture. With this system , however you really just need one good hot fence down the middle to divide the pasture into two sections. Good luck.

Jim

Thanks Jim… When subdividing a pasture would you use high tensile wire, barb wire, or other considering this land is leased land?

 

[Cuttin_up]

You very likely will have one or two that don't breed back on schedule, especially if the first calf is pulling them down any at all. If you want to keep your calving season tight, Dun's got a good plan.
Avg gestation period for cattle is 283 days. So if first calf is born Nov 1 2010, and the cow has first heat 30 to 45 days later and is bred then, she will calve in early-mid Sept of 2011.

Rotational grazing is a good practice as Jim recommends, but I can also understand your reluctance to put in the labor and money of fencing on property you don't own. Any chance owner would cut you a deal based on your 'improvement' to the land?

Jim's plan would work I just need to decided what type of fencing would work and that would be cost effective considering I don't own the land.

I already have an ideal agreement with the landowner, in that I maintain the land and fences and there will be no lease/rent payments on the pasture.

 

[Brute 23]

I already have an ideal agreement with the landowner, in that I maintain the land and fences and there will be no lease/rent payments on the pasture.

I hope you have written down what "maintain" intels. You could lose on that deal in a hurry.

 

[Cuttin_up]

I hope you have written down what "maintain" intels. You could lose on that deal in a hurry.

All paperwork has been drawn up just like a typical lease would be.

 

[snickers]

our little operation only consists of 43 acres. The problem we had when we didn't get the bull out was he was trying to ride the cow who just had her calf, so we now put him in a lot and feed him just alittle grain and all the hay he wants and then when were ready he goes back out with his girls.

 

[SRBeef]

… When subdividing a pasture would you use high tensile wire, barb wire, or other considering this land is leased land?

I think the best interior divider fence (the one down the middle) depends on your terrain. Since it is not your land and I don't know how long the agreement runs, and assuming you have electricity available somewhere, I would put in 6ft steel Tee posts (you can do that fairly easily by yourself) about 25 ft apart and run two 14 ga steel wires one at about 24" one at about 42" above the ground using the Gallagher strap on type T post insulators. You can use speed braces for the ends or bends and put this up pretty easily by yourself - minimal cost.

This is also your weaning fence. Once you have that up with a good 6 joule fencer you can subdivide each half into smaller sections using just a single aluminum electric wire on a reel with stepins (I like the Gallagher pigtails - expensive but they last forever and quick to move) and these can all be fed off of the center divider fence with a gate handle.

First thing to look at is access to water and do you need to make a couple lanes. I would keep it simple though at first and if water is at one end or spot in each half, gradually move a cross wire farther and farther exposing new grass every couple days with no back fence so they can still get to water. Not ideal (cattle can go back and nibble on new growth in areas that should be resting) but it will work for a start.

You will find you can get an amazing amount and good quality of grazing out of 100 acres compared to just turning them out on it. Good luck.

Jim