building a herd

[George Monk]

If the criteria for building a brood herd of Angus cattle are; 1. increasing muscle, and 2. mothering ability. Which would you start with? which bulls would be likely candidates for this

 

[S.R.R.]

#1 Mothering ability

 

[MikeC]

If the criteria for building a brood herd of Angus cattle are; 1. increasing muscle, and 2. mothering ability. Which would you start with? which bulls would be likely candidates for this

Consistant Reproduction.

 

[jaydill]

As far as bulls...IMO, you'd be better off AIng some quality into your herd before trying to buy a bull.

 

[George Monk]

sorry I should have mentioned that I plan to use AI exclusively.

 

[dun]

sorry I should have mentioned that I plan to use AI exclusively.

Hooray, a right thinker! Now all we need to do is get you away from the black thing

dun

 

[George Monk]

the black thing is going to facilitate my goal of raising F1 bred heifer females. I will probably use hereford and charlois bulls on the registered cows and use AI to produce replacements and market Angus bulls. Historically it seems the commercial man/woman wants a black whitefaced cow. The charlois would be for those with a desire for strong growth. I hope this gives me a several of different markets to play to. I have about 10 years to develop my herd so I am trying to get a good start.

 

[1848]

sorry I should have mentioned that I plan to use AI exclusively.

Hooray, a right thinker! Now all we need to do is get you away from the black thing

dun

:lol: :lol: Funny Dun

Monk,

Sometimes to much muscle in an animal can lead to calving issues. I would stick to maternal characteristics up front...especially since you used "brood herd" as your goal. Good cows will give you those good calves, and you can always ad the muscle to a terminal set of calves with the right AI bull. If you wanted replacements from the cows, you could change the sire up for a round or two. Going AI will allow you to pick the characteristics you want down the road, but having that good cow will always be to the calfs advantage.

 

[AAOK]

If the criteria for building a brood herd of Angus cattle are; 1. increasing muscle, and 2. mothering ability. Which would you start with? which bulls would be likely candidates for this

The BEST Angus cows I've ever seen are 1/2 blood Maine-Anjou; Broody, Very adequate, smooth muscle patern, Terrific mothering ability, and DOCILE. #1 Bull by a wide margin...DRAFTPICK.

You can breed these females any way you want, and get GREAT calves.

 

[la4angus]

The BEST Angus cows I've ever seen are 1/2 blood Maine-Anjou; Broody, Very adequate, smooth muscle patern, Terrific mothering ability, and DOCILE. #1 Bull by a wide margin...DRAFTPICK.
.

They are not Angus if they are 1/2 blood Maine Anjou. They are 1/2 Angus and 1/2 Maine Anjou. They may be black, but they are not Angus.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I was waiting for that one ROTFLMAO

 

[MikeC]

The BEST Angus cows I've ever seen are 1/2 blood Maine-Anjou; Broody, Very adequate, smooth muscle patern, Terrific mothering ability, and DOCILE. #1 Bull by a wide margin...DRAFTPICK.
.

They are not Angus if they are 1/2 blood Maine Anjou. They are 1/2 Angus and 1/2 Maine Anjou. They may be black, but they are not Angus.

If they qualify for CAB. They MUST be angus. By Jove! :lol: :lol:

 

[la4angus]

The BEST Angus cows I've ever seen are 1/2 blood Maine-Anjou; Broody, Very adequate, smooth muscle patern, Terrific mothering ability, and DOCILE. #1 Bull by a wide margin...DRAFTPICK.
.

They are not Angus if they are 1/2 blood Maine Anjou. They are 1/2 Angus and 1/2 Maine Anjou. They may be black, but they are not Angus.

If they qualify for CAB. They MUST be angus. By Jove! :lol: :lol:

1/2 Angus Mike. I'll send Frankie to set you straight if you start that crap. :lol:

 

[AAOK]

Never said anything about Fullblood Angus. I just said the best Angus cows I have ever seen were 1/2 MA. They were all calved from Angus cows............those cows just needed a little help from Draftpick (which is at least 1/32 Angus, maybe even 1/16).

 

[George Monk]

Why would I want to make a MA a better cow and make my Angus worse?? I unfortunately in my inexperience bought exactly the 1/2MA 1/2A heifers that you mention. Of the ten that I bought 4 years ago only one has been able to stay in the herd. Fertility issues, don't milk, calving problems, low weaning weights relative to the angus. They looked good but did less to raise a calf than a good hereford would. Bottom line you probably would have to give me the MA to get them on my farm and then I would trade two for one to get Angus.

 

[AAOK]

Why would I want to make a MA a better cow and make my Angus worse?? I unfortunately in my inexperience bought exactly the 1/2MA 1/2A heifers that you mention. Of the ten that I bought 4 years ago only one has been able to stay in the herd. Fertility issues, don't milk, calving problems, low weaning weights relative to the angus. They looked good but did less to raise a calf than a good hereford would. Bottom line you probably would have to give me the MA to get them on my farm and then I would trade two for one to get Angus.

You sure didn't get the genotypical MA X A cross. I can find you an easy dozen Angus folks in Oklahoma who would argue the exact opposite of your experience; Express Ranch, for one.

Oh well, glad to hear you tried it. Just must have found some of the rare bad genetics of the breed.

 

[la4angus]

Of the ten that I bought 4 years ago only one has been able to stay in the herd. Fertility issues, don't milk, calving problems, low weaning weights relative to the angus. They looked good but did less to raise a calf than a good hereford would. Bottom line you probably would have to give me the MA to get them on my farm and then I would trade two for one to get Angus.

It seems that Mr. Monk has more sense than most of the Hot Shots out there. And he's talking from experience.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Why would I want to make a MA a better cow and make my Angus worse?? I unfortunately in my inexperience bought exactly the 1/2MA 1/2A heifers that you mention. Of the ten that I bought 4 years ago only one has been able to stay in the herd. Fertility issues, don't milk, calving problems, low weaning weights relative to the angus. They looked good but did less to raise a calf than a good hereford would. Bottom line you probably would have to give me the MA to get them on my farm and then I would trade two for one to get Angus.

Hard to beat Angus,Herefords,Brammers or there crosses for good momma cows three essential breeds in the American Beef industry.
Unless you want to raise Longhorns or the hairy version(highlands) for rugs and horns.

 

[George Monk]

To be fair I did think that the problems I encountered were due to the producer. I got caught up in having the MA cross animals and didn't really understand what I was getting. After they were at home and we went through the first calvings did I understand MY mistake. After I was able to look at them for a long while I understood my judgement of the quality of the animals was wrong. Hey I learned and I shouldn't condem the whole breed because of one producer. However as you can tell I am tainted now!

 

[Caustic Burno]

To be fair I did think that the problems I encountered were due to the producer. I got caught up in having the MA cross animals and didn't really understand what I was getting. After they were at home and we went through the first calvings did I understand MY mistake. After I was able to look at them for a long while I understood my judgement of the quality of the animals was wrong. Hey I learned and I shouldn't condem the whole breed because of one producer. However as you can tell I am tainted now!

Mr.Monk hats off to you man that can see his mistakes in this business and not whine and cry will go far. You sound like a responsible cattleman.
:cboy: