Broadway AI bull.

[True Grit Farms]

Anything with that much white would be destined for the feed bunk.

It is, isn't that what all registered breeders should do?

 

[Till-Hill]

Anything with that much white would be destined for the feed bunk.

It is, isn't that what all registered breeders should do?

Why is a female with that much white "destined for the feed bunk", by registered breeders? Don't we remember what Simmental's started out as? Why is it different if a female is black and white?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Because todays goal is to get away from that of old. Uniformity sells. Start keeping a herd of spotted cattle and accept the stein discount.

 

[Franke]

I had talked with Ed Schmidt (herdsman at Hook's) this spring, and he said they didn't have any problems. However he was informed of a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls. The white marked heifers are easier to sell for the people who are looking for a show calf in this area. Breeders don't usual buy them and bulls are hard to sell as well.

 

[Son of Butch]

a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls.

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

 

[Bird]

SoB, you don't put much stock in calving ease? Just curious what you look at to gauge how they may calve?

 

[Till-Hill]

a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls.

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

SOB, I just looked up Broadway's progeny report. Has over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops. How many calves did he sire to that were not reported/registered? If they was only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

I'm in no way saying he is the best bull in the breed. I just think people over look some things.
Like I said before people jump the gun on these young unproven bulls and use them on heifers. The ones that turn out to be heifer bulls they get along fine. The ones destined to be cow bulls it's a train wreck. As a Simmental guy myself I find using an Angus bull most of the times to be a better option pedigree wise. Not many Simmental bulls without any Legacy/Shear Force in them that are bet the ranch heifer bulls.

 

[Son of Butch]

I had my fill of pulling freakin' huge simmental calves back in the '90s
I guess if one guy has a couple of hard pulls and only had to cut out 2 well that qualifies as simmental calving ease.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Not many Simmental bulls without any Legacy/Shear Force in them that are bet the ranch heifer bulls.

Used a "calving ease" AI Simi bull on wf heifers this year. Had a lot of problems that were covered in another post. Will not repeat that mismatch. Had used Graduate previously, and he threw snaky calves that required no assists.

 

[Bright Raven]

a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls.

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

SOB, I just looked up Broadway's progeny report. Has over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops. How many calves did he sire to that were not reported/registered? If they was only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

I'm in no way saying he is the best bull in the breed. I just think people over look some things.
Like I said before people jump the gun on these young unproven bulls and use them on heifers. The ones that turn out to be heifer bulls they get along fine. The ones destined to be cow bulls it's a train wreck. As a Simmental guy myself I find using an Angus bull most of the times to be a better option pedigree wise. Not many Simmental bulls without any Legacy/Shear Force in them that are bet the ranch heifer bulls.

That is reasonable and the matings where the difficulty occurred could be related to the cow family.

 

[Franke]

Cow's genetics, feed, weather, and management are all factors that could have affected those calves. We bought some semen to use for bred heifers that we were going to sell. Only had one stay and she calved herself this spring but the calf was dead. Not what I wanted to hear from the customer. We didn't use him this year at all and will likely wait until there are more calves and a better accuracy on his epds.

 

[Son of Butch]

a breeder that had two cut out and had a couple hard pulls.

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

I looked up Broadway's progeny report.... over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops.
If only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

IF Only then we are talking a new world record for any breed.... 2 out of over 500 = less than 0.04% death loss.

Obviously it's not the whole story if one guy reports 2 cut out (in addition to hard pulls) in his herd alone.
How many calves did this 1 fellow have sired by this bull? Was it 2 out of 10? 20? 50?
We don't know as that part was not stated.

 

[Franke]

Calving ease is sooo overrated. :roll:

I looked up Broadway's progeny report.... over 500 calves registered in 2 calf crops.
If only 2 deads and a couple hard pulls I'd take them odds.

IF Only then we are talking a new world record for any breed.... 2 out of over 500 = less than 0.04% death loss.

Obviously it's not the whole story if one guy reports 2 cut out (in addition to hard pulls) in his herd alone.
How many calves did this 1 fellow have sired by this bull? Was it 2 out of 10? 20? 50?
We don't know as that part was not stated.

I didn't ask who it was or how many calves they had out of him. I'm sure if you call Tom or Ed they will give you some straight answers on him.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Common sense to me is don't breed heifers to any up and coming young bulls. There's to many proven Angus sires with LB weights to take any chances. A heifer usually isn't going to produce a calf worthy of selling for breeding stock.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.

Have you ever had any yearlings bulls or heifers in any of the university feed evaluation sales? Very few heifers can produce enough milk for the calf to make adg weight. We don't throw away any calves, but I've been known to cut and cull a bunch of keepers though.
I know what works and what doesn't around here, and a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.

 

[Franke]

I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.

Have you ever had any yearlings bulls or heifers in any of the university feed evaluation sales? Very few heifers can produce enough milk for the calf to make adg weight. We don't throw away any calves, but I've been known to cut and cull a bunch of keepers though.
I know what works and what doesn't around here, and a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.

There will always be exceptions to every rule about cattle. Most of our calves out of heifers are sold as feeder calves. I would say most of it because they are smaller and out of angus bulls. I do have one this year out of Yellowstone that I bought that is doing really well and will market as breeding stock. We as a family agree it's better to have a little calf with no problems to jump start the heifer to being a cow than to have some issues and screw her up for the rest of her life.

 

[Stocker Steve]

a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.

Amazing amount of growth in some modern genetics. I have one simi angus bull calf from a heifer that is 100# bigger than any of the rest - - he is a milk thief. :nod: How does that effect EPDs?

 

[True Grit Farms]

a heifers calf can not compare to a good cows calf with the same breeding. No bs just fact.

Amazing amount of growth in some modern genetics. I have one simi angus bull calf from a heifer that is 100# bigger than any of the rest - - he is a milk thief. :nod: How does that effect EPDs?

There's exceptions to the rules for sure. Everyone's best cow started out as a heifers at one time. All the calves have access to Godfrey's calf - grower feed 24/7, and some always out shine others. But I can't think of a heifers first calf ever leading the group. Most breeders breed for calving ease on all the heifers and usually that means a smaller calf genetically. To me it's just common cow sense that a heifer will and should produce a smaller calf.

 

[Till-Hill]

I would never use an Angus bull on my simmentals.... there are too many good calving ease simmentals bulls I can use instead!
My heifers have produced calves worthy of selling as seedstock. I have posted numerous pictures of our Optomizer heifer, out of a first calf heifer. She is due Oct 1st to Elevate. You should not be producing throw away calves if you are a good purebred breeder. Know your genetics, match your cattle. That is why we AI, I can match each heifer to the bull that will best cross with her.

Only reason we do is to shy away from Legacy/Shear Force. And we are mostly SimAngus. Another reason why is our cattle are getting to little. I can use a 6+ frame Angus. Not many 6+ frame Simmentals calving ease.

On the hole idea of not keeping heifers out of heifers. You folks are loosing some of the best genetics on your farm. I wish I had room for more. I'd buy your heifers out of heifers at a discount then since they ain't no good, and if they had some chrome on them I could buy them real cheap.

We just sold a bred heifer last winter that was a 5th generation heifer out of a heifer. Best heifer we had that year.

We have used a lot of sexed semen in the past. We try to get heifers out of heifers. Yes they may be a tick smaller at weaning but it's a long time till breeding season!