ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
Stay with the angus, and keep replicating calves like him.
Big Cheese":3hvqgn8y said:7/8, if you look at Charolais Bull registration, is considered full blood <snip>
WalnutCrest":3eiih5ez said:Big Cheese":3eiih5ez said:7/8, if you look at Charolais Bull registration, is considered full blood <snip>
Really?
If you take 7/8ths bulls and breed them successively to females starting with mutt cows, but count them as fullbloods for the purpose of "breeding up" eventually you end up with a mutt breed that won't breed true and, out of which, quite a bit of potential heterosis had been lost.
7/8ths bulls on a mutt cow gives heifers that are really 7/16ths, but counted as 1/2
Taking those heifers and breeding them to a different 7/8 bull, you get calves that are 65.6% but counted as 3/4.
Then taking these actual 65.6% females (who are counted as being 3/4 but really aren't), and they're bred to another 7/8ths bull, you get calves that are 76.6% but counted as 7/8 fullbloods?!
Now, image the dilution if someone would use a series of 76.6% bulls (that are called a fullbloods but really aren't). After three generations, the resulting 'fullblood' cattle would only be 67.0% of the reference breed. But they'd be called fullblood.
How much heterosis is lost to the commercial bull buyer at this point?
cbcr":vamtluzx said:WalnutCrest":vamtluzx said:Big Cheese":vamtluzx said:7/8, if you look at Charolais Bull registration, is considered full blood <snip>
Really?
If you take 7/8ths bulls and breed them successively to females starting with mutt cows, but count them as fullbloods for the purpose of "breeding up" eventually you end up with a mutt breed that won't breed true and, out of which, quite a bit of potential heterosis had been lost.
7/8ths bulls on a mutt cow gives heifers that are really 7/16ths, but counted as 1/2
Taking those heifers and breeding them to a different 7/8 bull, you get calves that are 65.6% but counted as 3/4.
Then taking these actual 65.6% females (who are counted as being 3/4 but really aren't), and they're bred to another 7/8ths bull, you get calves that are 76.6% but counted as 7/8 fullbloods?!
Now, image the dilution if someone would use a series of 76.6% bulls (that are called a fullbloods but really aren't). After three generations, the resulting 'fullblood' cattle would only be 67.0% of the reference breed. But they'd be called fullblood.
How much heterosis is lost to the commercial bull buyer at this point?
As the Composite Registries both Beef and Dairy, our percentages are based on actuals. If an animal is only 87.5%, then that is what we use for our calculation, we do not consider that or even a 93.75% animal as a 100%.
We have just finished some pedigrees that even though the sire is registered in another registry and considered a full-blood when actuallity he is only 30% of the breed.
It would probably surprise some as to how much dairy blood is in some pedigrees!
cbcr":2biiciil said:WalnutCrest":2biiciil said:Big Cheese":2biiciil said:7/8, if you look at Charolais Bull registration, is considered full blood <snip>
Really?
If you take 7/8ths bulls and breed them successively to females starting with mutt cows, but count them as fullbloods for the purpose of "breeding up" eventually you end up with a mutt breed that won't breed true and, out of which, quite a bit of potential heterosis had been lost.
7/8ths bulls on a mutt cow gives heifers that are really 7/16ths, but counted as 1/2
Taking those heifers and breeding them to a different 7/8 bull, you get calves that are 65.6% but counted as 3/4.
Then taking these actual 65.6% females (who are counted as being 3/4 but really aren't), and they're bred to another 7/8ths bull, you get calves that are 76.6% but counted as 7/8 fullbloods?!
Now, image the dilution if someone would use a series of 76.6% bulls (that are called a fullbloods but really aren't). After three generations, the resulting 'fullblood' cattle would only be 67.0% of the reference breed. But they'd be called fullblood.
How much heterosis is lost to the commercial bull buyer at this point?
As the Composite Registries both Beef and Dairy, our percentages are based on actuals. If an animal is only 87.5%, then that is what we use for our calculation, we do not consider that or even a 93.75% animal as a 100%.
We have just finished some pedigrees that even though the sire is registered in another registry and considered a full-blood when actuallity he is only 30% of the breed.
It would probably surprise some as to how much dairy blood is in some pedigrees!
Although not directly stated, the article does seem to imply 85% of LH are free of the African Horn gene.Caustic Burno":3ogzgrfu said:
Son of Butch":27w7qsyj said:Although not directly stated, the article does seem to imply 85% of LH are free of the African Horn gene.Caustic Burno":27w7qsyj said:
Given that the bull calf is only 1/8 LH the odds seem to be overwhelmingly in his favor that he is clean for A.H. gene.
Long shots do hit on occasion, however the risk at least appears to be low.
But if you want to name call over a 45-1 long shot that's your prerogative.
"Mine That Bird" did win the Kentucky Derby at 90-1 several years ago and even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Caustic Burno":1tjgyod8 said:He needs to read more IMO
"Most LH like Brahman have the African horn gene...."
http://news.utexas.edu/2013/03/26/the-t ... me-decoded
AKE":2yxe7noe said:Got a 7/8 Angus and 1/8 longhorn calf thinking about keeping for a bull because he looks really good. The longhorn was a red longhorn which was bred to a registered Angus threw a black hfr with no horns looked Angus. Kept her bred to a different registered Angus she had a black hfr. This bull calf is out of that hfr and a different registered Angus. Curious if a kept him and put him with back with black cows if he would throw black calves? I'm certain he would. Not sure about if I put him with my red cattle though. He has 3 different Angus bulls in his backgroud.
Isn't that the goal of most commercial breeders to raise one that will make a good feeder. I personally don't want to use a bull that wouldn't make a good feeder. I see too many bulls today by the top sires being sold on looks but they wouldn't make an average feeder. So if he would make a good feeder he has a leg up on many.ALACOWMAN":2rzr7etw said:I don't see what's so special about him.....make a good feeder..
With the calves being a 1/16th longhorn, they're probably better than him.ALACOWMAN":1gl2i3yy said:Thought he said he was raising him as a herd bull...you think he can reproduce himself?