tex452
Well-known member
My wife's cow never had any problems.
She was bred to angus the first two calves, charolais the third.
BELTIE!
- Thread starter MurraysMutts
- Start date
She was bred to angus the first two calves, charolais the third.
crossbredcalves
Well-known member
I bred mine to a Saler and Charolais with no issues, but I know that's not necessarily going to be everyone's experience.
You did not print the whole statement by AAA:
Angus cattle can qualify for the Certified Angus Beef® (CAB) brand. According to the American Angus Association, live cattle must be Angus-influenced and have a predominately (51%) solid black hide to be eligible for CAB evaluation. They must meet all of the 10 following criteria to be certified by USDA graders and labeled with the Certified Angus Beef® brand 1:
My purebred Simmental cattle qualify for CAB. I have sold many steers thru Cornell Steer Feedout Program - all my black hided Simmental were sold CAB.
The live requirements are the 51% black hide, "beef" type, no hump cattle.
Then, when they are killed, they have all the carcass requirements.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Exactly, there is no real proof of breed % be it documentation or DNA required for CAB. I know some Angus breeders that want DNA requirements for CAB,
From what I understand there would not be enough cattle to meet that requirement to fulfill the orders so that will likely not happen any time soon.
I'd venture to say a lot of the CAB is from calves are high percentage to pure Simmental, or 1/2 Angus/1/2 Hereford
or 1/2 Angus/something else, so my way of thinking a lot of CAB is likely only 50% or less Angus if truth was known.
Well , the color is just the 1st step to getting one inspected to see if it qualifies for CAB. It is the marbling and rib eye area that makes Angus beef superior. The CAB program has done exactly what it was designed to do... encourage the use of Angus in commercial beef programs. When it was started in 1980, DNA testing trechnology was slow and expensive, so color was naturally the gate keeper. There may be a Simmental that is very far removed from Angus, that has the marbling, REA, etc, to qualify for CAB. and that's ok if some do make it. It hasn't hurt even one Angus producer out there. CAB has exponentially increased the amount of Angus used in beef cattle programs. And, while there may be a Herford or Charolais that has the marbling, etc, to score CAB, why in the world would the AAA allow that? Or want those cattle included? as far as I know, there are no laws, rules, or regulations preventing Hereford, Charolais, etc., breeders from getting their associations, to spend the millions on researching and identifying carcass qualities unique to those breeds, then spending millions on marketing to introduce the public to that beef, and convince them to pay extra for it. Actually, Hereford wouldn't have to. Black Herefords qualify to be inspected for CAB. A Black hereford is aty leat 5/8ths Hereford and no more than 2./8ths Angus. But, the black Herford association allows you toe breed a reg BH to a reg red Hereford, and if the calf is black it can be registered BH. There are more BHs out there now that are 96% red Hereford than the original 5/8ths- 3/8ths composite. At 96%, those BHs are more Herford than pb Simmentals and Charolais are Simm or Charolais. Speaking of Simmental. there are many people who raise Simms, and they get black calves, bwf, rwf, solid reds, and the original red & white Simms, Their commercial black or bwf, will fetch the CVAB premium. But, you don't hear any of them moaning and whining about " the evil CAB program". causing their red calves to be "docked". They know that if they want all of their calves to bring the premium, they just need to use homo for black bulls.
Here you go. A "few" certified beef programs:
- AAA – Live Animal Specification (pdf)
- AHA – Live Animal Specification (pdf)
- AWA - Live Animal Specification (pdf)
- RAAA – Live Animal Specification (pdf)
- G 1 - Certified Angus Beef
- G 2 - Cargill Meat Solutions Sterling Silver
- G 4 – Swift Chef's Exclusive
- G 5 - Swift Chef's Exclusive EU
- G 6 - Tejas Premium Meats Angus Beef Program
- G 10 - Certified Hereford Beef
- G 10A – Certified Hereford Beef Premium
- G 11 - Copper Creek Cattle Company Angus
- G 12 - FTM Sales LLC Angus Program
- G 14 - National Beef Black Canyon Angus Beef Premium Reserve Program
- G 15 - DemKota Ranch Angus Beef Program
- G 16 – Cattle Company Premium Angus Beef Program
- G 18 - STX Premium Angus Beef Program
- G 20 - National Beef Certified Premium
- G 21 - DemKota Ranch Beef Program
- G 22 - Stock Yards Angus Beef
- G 23 - Swift Premium Black Angus Beef
- G 24 – Certified Legacy 72 Angus Beef Program
- G 27 - Halpern's' Angus Beef
- G 29 – High River Angus Exclusive Beef
- G 31 – Swift Chef's Exclusive Black Angus Beef
- G 33 - Where Food Comes From Certified Beef Program
- G 35 - Tyson's Chairman's Reserve Certified Premium Beef
- G 36 - Great Mark Western High Choice Beef Program
- G 38 – FM Meat Products Beef Program
a few more:
- G 43 – Aurora Packing Premium Black Angus Beef
- G 44 - Creekstone Farms Premium Black Angus Beef
- G 48 – Allen Brothers Beef
- G 49 - FPL Food Upper Two Thirds Angus Beef Program
- G 50 - Elkhorn Valley Packing Premier Angus Beef
- G 51 – AB Foods, LLC., St. Helen's Premium Angus Beef
- G 55 - Ohio Premium Beef
- G 56 - Trueth Reserve Angus Beef Program
- G 57 - Harris Ranch Natural Black Angus Beef
- G 61 - Creekstone Farms Premium Natural Black Angus Beef
- G 63 - National Beef Black Canyon Angus Beef
- G 64 – AB Foods, LLC., Signature Double R Ranch Premium Northwest Brand Beef
- G 66 - Valley Pride Black Angus Beef Program
- G 68 - Iowa Best Beef Black Angus
- G 70 - G. F. Swift 1855 Black Angus Beef
- G 74 - Creekstone Farms Premium International Black Angus Beef
- G78 - Butcher's Block Reserve Angus Beef
- G 79 - Nieman Ranch Beef Program
- G 81 - Forth Worth Meats Angus Program
- G 82 – Revier Cattle Co. Black Angus Beef Program
- G 87 - Creekstone Farms Premium Black Angus Beef Program
- G 88 - Double J Black Angus Beef
- G 89 – Brush Meat Processors Rocky Mountain Angus Beef Program
- G 92 - Ohio All Natural Premium Beef Program
- G 93 – Elkhorn Valley EVP Angus Beef
- G 103 – 1881 Omaha Hereford Beef Program
- G103A – Greater Omaha Hereford Beef Program
- G104 – Greater Omaha 1920 Angus Beef Program
- G104A – Greater Omaha Classic Angus Beef Program
- G 107 – WR Reserve Premium Black Angus Beef
- G 109 Iowa Best Beef Premier Midwest Black Angus Program
- G 111 - Kansas Ranch Premium Reserve Black Angus Beef Program
- G 112 - 44 Farms Premium Natural Black Angus Program
- G 114 - Gold Canyon Angus Beef
- G 116 - Revier Cattle Co Black Angus Cow Program
- G 117 - Linz Heritage Angus
- G 118 - STX Angus Beef Program
- G 119 - Brush Meat Processors Black Angus Beef Program
- G 136 – Upper Iowa Angus Beef
- G 137 – Iowa Angus Beef Program
- G 142 – Est. 8 Angus Program
- G 143 – US 212 Black Angus Beef Program
- G144 – Agri Star Wagyu and Iowa Best Beef Wagyu
- G 145 – Imperial Valley Black Angus
- G 147 – Naeve Black Angus Beef Program
- G 148 - Upper Iowa Beef Program
- G 149 - Platte Valley Food Group Angus Beef Program
- G NR - Nolan Ryan's Tender Aged Beef
Ky hills
Well-known member
Can't convince me that there aren't a lot of F1, 50% Angus/50% Herefords that qualify for every step of CAB. Im not talking "black Herefords" either.
Yes CAB has helped Angus breeders sell Angus bulls, I've never disputed that.
There is a reality that other breeds are playing the game too and are now cutting into the market share of Angus bull sales.
I have several friends that are Angus breeders and I've been hearing for several years that it's been tough for them to sell bulls, in other words the supply of Angus bulls has somewhat outpaced the demand. Other registered breeders of Simmental and Herefords have been selling out fairly quickly and at prices comparable and maybe even more than the average Angus bulls.
Understand I'm not knocking Angus I've used Angus bulls for 20 yrs, but over the last 10 or so I've brought in a few other breeds to find something that works a little better for what I'm trying to do.
AAA has the numbers and money to promote CAB and make it a success.
It's marketing, and they launched it at the perfect time to capitalize on the 80's frame race mess. Everybody involved with cattle were at that time learning that they had created a monster of a disaster with the frame size and they had to change.
Angus had the numbers and enough cattle that had not been pushed to the extreme so they had that going for them as well, coupled with the CAB.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Since this is a Beltie thread,
This little feller was born overnight his mother is a Belted Galloway that we bought back in March as a 3 in 1.
He doesn't have a belt, he should qualify for CAB
This little feller was born overnight his mother is a Belted Galloway that we bought back in March as a 3 in 1.
He doesn't have a belt, he should qualify for CAB
Oh, about every black baldy calf brings a CAB premium at the sale, no doubt on that. How many of them score CAB after slaughter? I bet just as many do as solid blacks. Black Herefords as well fetch the CAB premium, and they may be as little as 5% Angus. It would be interesting to know how many of those carcasses score CAB. There are 30-something..near;ly 40...other certified angus programs out there besides the well- known CAB. One of them last year, submitted paperwork to the USDA, asking to be able to include red angus in their program. I haven't heard how that is going, though. It would be cumbersome to have reg papers follow a calf from the sale, to the feedlot, and then to the processor, and I don't see how the time factor would allow for DNA testing at slaughter.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I'm not advocating for paperwork or DNA I don't think anybody wants to incur more work or cost when it comes to raising/feeding cattle.
There are or were as of several years ago programs from the AAA called Angus Source a source and breed verification program that would do just what you are saying.
They wouldn't do DNA, they would have certified eartags, would be my guess.
Just because an animal of other breeds is black does not mean the DNA would come back .875 Simmental and .125 Angus (example). It could be .875 Simmental, .10 Hereford. .025 Angus. It could be even a lot less % Angus. All it takes is ONE GENE, getting passed generation after generation. Or, inheriting TWO GENES back in the beginning of crossbreeding.
Just because an animal is black, does not mean there is much of any Angus genetics.
A color gene does not make a breed or breed characteristics.
Just because an animal of other breeds is black does not mean the DNA would come back .875 Simmental and .125 Angus (example). It could be .875 Simmental, .10 Hereford. .025 Angus. It could be even a lot less % Angus. All it takes is ONE GENE, getting passed generation after generation. Or, inheriting TWO GENES back in the beginning of crossbreeding.
Just because an animal is black, does not mean there is much of any Angus genetics.
A color gene does not make a breed or breed characteristics.
What is the sire? Dunno what will happen at slaughter once the hide is off, but I guarantee you when you sell him he will fetch the premium, and the carcass will be sent to be scored for CAB.Since this is a Beltie thread,
This little feller was born overnight his mother is a Belted Galloway that we bought back in March as a 3 in 1.
He doesn't have a belt, he should qualify for CAB
Ky hills
Well-known member
No idea what the sire is but my guess would be an Angus type bull.
I guarantee we won't see any premium what so ever. Somewhere down the line somebody might, but the cow calf people like me just get market price for black cattle unless it's seen as a short or fleshy and it will get a discount like an off colored one.
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Travlr
Well-known member
That's why there are black Lims and black Sims, and black Herefords.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Technically both yes and no.
The original reason there are black Simmentals and Limousins is because of the breeding up programs to grow the breed registries in the US. The US cowherd was pretty much Angus or Hereford until the continentals came on the scene. The continental bulls were bred to the existing British breed cows that made up the US herd. Naturally those crosses were going to be black with the exception of the Charolais crosses. So there was already a black hided presence in breeds like Simmental prior to the CAB.
Now I have no doubt that after all the CAB stuff caught on that the breeds that could started selectively breeding for black hides.
The "black Hereford" "breed" is different in the sense that yes it became a thing for the sole purpose of marketing black hided cattle for CAB.
OP
OP
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Ok turkey!!Since this is a Beltie thread,
This little feller was born overnight his mother is a Belted Galloway that we bought back in March as a 3 in 1.
He doesn't have a belt, he should qualify for CAB
Where a sweet pic of mama!
Better yet... baby nursing mama!
That baby is cute as a button btw!
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Ky hills
Well-known member
I'll try to get one of them together.
Mama Belt left him to come to hay.
She had a evidence of having calved on her so we drove down and found him.
That Mama Belt ain't really all that sweet, not mean but on the skittish side.
OP
OP
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Awwwe. Bless her lil heart!
That chromed up black white cow I had, raised a good solid black calf. Weird how sometimes that belt/white gets left behind.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I wonder if the belt comes back through in future generations from a solid calf?
Getting ready to turn a RWF Simmental bull out with cows and a BWF out with heifers got a belt in each group might get a white face with belt out of one of them at some point.
