Belgian blue cattle

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I was not being derogatory or insulting to Lithuanian. I have admired his cattle numerous times. IF YOU READ THE previous post, I was responding to their comment:
"I'm curious about the myostatin gene mutation that causes double muscling. Seems an increase in muscle mass would be a desirable trait. European AI centers offer double muscled studs, but Americans seem to have little interest in double muscling. My impression is double muscling does not sell in USA. Is there a commercial market for double muscled cattle in USA?"
I was making a statement of fact. Nothing more. A TRUE FACTUAL statement.
 
debbiea said:
The Lithuanian farmer is raising beautiful cattle well taken care of and he is proud of them. Why would you make such a derogatory comment about this breed? It is very obnoxious!
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I LIKE Belgian Blue cattle... and have raised them myself. Some of the best animals I've ever had. But the hard truth is that the grading system in the USofA doesn't have standards that can properly assess and categorize BB carcasses, so they are discounted. In Europe they have ways to market their product as a superior type of meat.

It's really about a market that is ignorant of other methods, and other forms of quality.
 
Travlr - not completely. They are discounted because they don't MARBLE and Americans pay for marbling.
I personally cringe when I see some of the sires he uses. All I can think of is DYSTOCIA waiting to happen. There are very few American farms with cattle that could handle ANY of the bulls he uses. My cattle easily handle 100# (even 120# calves) without a hesitation, but that is NOT normal in USA. And I do not think many of MY cows could possibly spit out calves out of his sires. Head - shoulders and hips. No way.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
Travlr - not completely. They are discounted because they don't MARBLE and Americans pay for marbling.
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Which is another way of saying what I said. Americans pay for what is marketed to them. We don't know any better because we have so little experience with anything other than what is available.

Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
I personally cringe when I see some of the sires he uses. All I can think of is DYSTOCIA waiting to happen. There are very few American farms with cattle that could handle ANY of the bulls he uses. My cattle easily handle 100# (even 120# calves) without a hesitation, but that is NOT normal in USA. And I do not think many of MY cows could possibly spit out calves out of his sires. Head - shoulders and hips. No way.
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Yup, we've bred our cows (generally speaking) to be less capable by using low birth weight and calving ease bulls... even on older, experienced cows that should be having normal sized calves.
 
Whoah, what a discusion.
I appreciate all opinions. Not many people do what I do even in my own country. Farmers are far from modern here, but I'm trying to learn things from other european farmers, where their farming goal is similar to mine, which is to breed profitable animals with lots of meat for our market. Many farmers here go toward different direction and breed for small birth weights, milk or size, leaving out muscularity. I breed for better beefness, easier calving in females and trying to fix acouple other things in the process. We have improved maternal calving ease quite a lot I think, but also an average birth weight has increased by ~10lbs. To increase muscularity and to keep calving ease is a very delicate thing, but I'm taking the risk to a certain point and try to see what works and what can bring trouble. I'm not sure if I will ever go past 75% with blues. It needs very good females and suitable bulls for that, which would take alot of time. Time will tell.
P.S. I'm going to bring here 10 heifers of another double muscled, but abit less extreme breed in November.
P.P.S. Yes, to my knowledge, I'm a female 😅 Adding photo for a proof... Aaand it might be abit more memorable for all 😅
20230717_121846.jpg

P.P.P.S. Got a real nice shot of the heifer today, so will just add here 😄
20230810_212515.jpg
For anyone wondering, my first option for her first calf would be an easy calving Salers. To get a good calf and without much issues. Will I ever use a blue on her? Not sure. If she proves me that she is more than capable calving calves at 110lbs bw and I will have a proven blue bull, then it's possible, but not earlier than third calf. If she shows that she has lower capabilities than her dam, then salers, limousin or easy calving parthenaise will be max what she will ever get. I do not want sections even if I'm capable to perform it.
And to add to all that, blues probably is the breed, which caused the least amount of trouble at calving, mostly because that such bulls are used on selected proven females. Charolais, Limousin and Angus would be in the lead for most assistance required at birth due to size.
 
Travlr said:
Yup, we've bred our cows (generally speaking) to be less capable by using low birth weight and calving ease bulls... even on older, experienced cows that should be having normal sized calves.
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Believe me, you're not the only ones. Have seen plenty of farmers here being obsessed about easy calving bulls and loosing some other important traits as a result. One example: pure Charolais farmer, 18 months old heifers weighing 1500lbs, adult cows weighing around 2000-2200lbs, some more, rarely gets calf heavier than 110lbs. Cows have poor pelvis, not build for good calving. That farmer is very surprised how our "tiny" cows can calve bigger calves. But she doesn't want to use abit more average calving bulls to improve her herds capabilities as she is afraid to have to assist more calvings.
 
And - duh - I knew you were a SHE!! Didn't know you were a vet. Sneaky little bugger!
I'm in total agreement on pushing your cattle. I don't worry about a heifer having a 90# + calf. They just spit them out. 100# is pushing it - but some of them have had them that big without assistance. Here in US, breeders are depending on CE sires way too much.
Right now, we are dragging a 2 yr old cow/calf pair to shows. He weighed 94# BW, unassisted, and has grown like a weed. Weighs over 900# and is just over 7 months old. Dam, Java, weighs 1400#. Sire was a CE / growth bull. That's the kind I like to use for CE. And no, we have not pushed her or her calf with a lot of grain. They have been getting 3# of 50% corn & 50% filler pellets. He didn't eat his grain until about 45 days ago. They were out with the herd until mid May (born 1-1 ---- yes, legit BD)
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
And - duh - I knew you were a SHE!! Didn't know you were a vet. Sneaky little bugger!
I'm in total agreement on pushing your cattle. I don't worry about a heifer having a 90# + calf. They just spit them out. 100# is pushing it - but some of them have had them that big without assistance. Here in US, breeders are depending on CE sires way too much.
Right now, we are dragging a 2 yr old cow/calf pair to shows. He weighed 94# BW, unassisted, and has grown like a weed. Weighs over 900# and is just over 7 months old. Dam, Java, weighs 1400#. Sire was a CE / growth bull. That's the kind I like to use for CE. And no, we have not pushed her or her calf with a lot of grain. They have been getting 3# of 50% corn & 50% filler pellets. He didn't eat his grain until about 45 days ago. They were out with the herd until mid May (born 1-1 ---- yes, legit BD)
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I might have mentioned the vet part or might have not 😅 It's been 2,5 years since I got my degree. Since then I started doing AI myself and working as a local cow vet abit.

That's a real good pair for the first timer!

Yup, I have set my standart for a heifer to be able to calve unassisted 95-100lbs calf, with some exceptions, if the heifer is smaller, more muscles or a calf is build like a brick. Don't want anything bigger, which do sometimes happen, but most of the time ropes and myself is enough for assistance, or even they handle that themselves. I know that for most such bw would be too high, but it is already achieved here, so that's just a normal requirement for heifers.
 
Pretty sure I saw a pic somewhere of @lithuanian farmer doing some a.i. work with a cow in the field eating from a bucket!!
The cow eating from a bucket. Just to clarify as that was a terrible awkward sentence. 😆

Awesome cows. And awesome gal!!


And @debbiea I don't know whatever I may have done to make you think that. I respect most all folks. Thats all I'm gonna say about that.

And I'll thank @lithuanian farmer for the awesome posts. Truly enjoyable seeing what's being done halfway around the world!!
 

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