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BBU rule changes

bigbull338

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i was reading the beefmaster cowmen an i saw where they changed some rules.they are allowing other reg breeds in a seperate reg now.an those cows have tobe bred to a reg beefmaster bull tobe accepted.in short it means we could add other reg breeds.what are yalls thoughts on this.
 

Frankie

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bigbull338":1kno1fh1 said:
i was reading the beefmaster cowmen an i saw where they changed some rules.they are allowing other reg breeds in a seperate reg now.an those cows have tobe bred to a reg beefmaster bull tobe accepted.in short it means we could add other reg breeds.what are yalls thoughts on this.

My thoughts: Some other breeds have been doing the same thing for years. Even the AAA is considering a seperate registry for crossbred animals (Balancers, Limflex, etc). It brings in more money for the Assn, plus it can deepen the gene pool of that breed (for better or for worse).
 

KNERSIE

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I don't think the beefmaster genepool is stable enough yet to allow for bringing other breeds in. Soon they'll lose their identity like some other breeds had.
 

bigbull338

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well for me im staying with beefmasters.by that im not buying any 1st or 2nd cross cattle that has a pure beefmaster calf or can be bred up to beefmasters.if we didnt have so dang meny crossbreeds a 2nd pure breed would be nice.but it aint happening now.im an oldschool breeder.going to talk to my buddy an see what his thoughts are on the new rules.now id love to add shorthorns for their color.an yes i know they are in beefmasters.
 

Rustler9

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I used to raise registered Beefmasters. I really like the old Beefmasters but I think they've already lost their identity when they allowed black animals into the registry. The three breeds that make up Beefmaster does not have black in their genes: Shorthorn, Hereford and Brahman. How is it that now they have black, polled animals registered as Beefmasters? I was at a registered Longhorn sale last summer in Oklahoma and was talking to a breeder who has a large herd of registered beefmasters as well as Texas Longhorns. I mentioned the black thing to him and he told me that it had finally come out that the president of the association had introduced black into Beefmasters by saying that this was some old Brahman genetics in the make up that came out black but when all was said and done he finally admitted to using a Brangus to make them black. Of course by then people were going gaga over the black ones so it was nothing more than a slap on the wrist to him and black stayed in the breed. Anyone else aware of this? This is what I was told and it makes sense. Nothing against black or Brangus but diluting the breed is diluting the breed....
 

Brandonm22

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I had never heard all of that background story; but I have been told that the Black had come from using Beefmasters on Brangus cows and breeding up. I like Beefmasters but they are starting to sound more like an open ended composite (like Leachman's Stabilizers) than a "pure" beef breed.
 

RobertMac

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Soulman!!!

Most of the black in Beefmasters have come from the upgrading program...although I believe Laurie has a black bull he got from Dr. Casey or Casey breeding. If you want real Beefmasters, buy Lasater/Casey Beefmasters.
 

bigbull338

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i to have have some black beefmasters.i have a black cow an black yearing heifer.as well as a black yearling bull out of black granite.i heard that breeder in MO got the black beefmaster craze going by having a bunch of black cows in the grade up program.an i also have a friend that bought a reg black beefmaster bull.an used him on heifers.but as the bull matured he looked to much like an angus so he sold him.an yes it was soulman that caused all the stink on the black beefmasters.
 

creativecattle

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My thoughts: Some other breeds have been doing the same thing for years. Even the AAA is considering a seperate registry for crossbred animals (Balancers, Limflex, etc). It brings in more money for the Assn, plus it can deepen the gene pool of that breed (for better or for worse).[/quote]

Where did you hear that the AAA is considering a separate registry for other breeds?
 

East Caney

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RobertMac":15eacm7o said:
Soulman!!!

Most of the black in Beefmasters have come from the upgrading program...although I believe Laurie has a black bull he got from Dr. Casey or Casey breeding. If you want real Beefmasters, buy Lasater/Casey Beefmasters.

Amen! Buy from the source or those foundation breeders smart enough to go to the source. So many breeders breed for form and forget about function. I want to admire my cattle, but I'd much rather admire the check they bring in. A cow with a perfect side profile isn't much good to me if she has balloon tits, milks poorly, or is about as wide as a sheet of paper when you stand behind her.

And folks might as well leave the black thing alone. It will have played out before they can cross 5 generations (new rule) to get back to a purebred Beefmaster. If I was going to toy with the Beefmaster Plus program, Red Angus could sure bring something to the table. Someone will cross Charolais bulls on Beefmaster cows, and the resulting offspring will look absolutely wonderful...and that will probably just hurt the sale of registered Beefmaster bulls.

Some "real" Beefmasters are black. What you will notice most of the time, though, is that those Beefmasters are black as a result of a "wild" color gene. The do not breed true. If they have black offspring, they will often have been born red or sometimes even dun.

EC
 

DOC HARRIS

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My thoughts: Some other breeds have been doing the same thing for years. Even the AAA is considering a seperate registry for crossbred animals (Balancers, Limflex, etc). It brings in more money for the Assn, plus it can deepen the gene pool of that breed (for better or for worse).

Frankie-

Perhaps you are correct in saying that "...even the AAA is considering a separate registry for crossbred animals..." (see above), but if that were to occur it would NOT - would NOT make the Registered animals "Purebred!" The only 'legitimate' title with which they could be labeled would be "[email protected][email protected]!" That is not to say anything against the Phenotypic or Functional or Form quality of the resulting progeny - only that they are "Registered [email protected]@rds". . . and can you imagine what kind of "Lethal Abnormalities" or "mutations" would be able to "Pop-Up" in the combined Gene Pool?? Do you have any idea how many "Legitimate" Angus Breeders could "sneak in" a "Registered [email protected]@rd" along the line somewhere, and when a cow gave birth to a "Purebred SOB" and it was Curly, or Six Legged, or Two Heads, or Four-Tailed, or Whatever, he could rush down to the local Beer Parlor and proudly tell his Buddy's "Guess What? Old 'Hussy' just presented me with a Curly, Six-Legged, Two-Headed, Four-Tailed Crap Flinger! I'm going to start a NEW breed, and supply every Circus in the World with a new side-show attraction!!"

This new Registry possibility might, in fact, provide additional $$$ for the ASSn, but it certainly would not enhance the Purity of the American Angus Association, or the reputation of the "American Angus Association Board of Directors". They could even call it "The American [email protected]@RDIZED ANGUS SOB ASSOCIATION", and while that would make it an interesting Acronym, it would do 'dam' little to "deepen the gene pool" of the current Registered Angus Cattle! They could then extend their 'naming scheme' plan to include SOB Free, and SOB Carrier (SOB-F and SOB-C). That way all breeders would know exactly how to mate all of their [email protected]@RDS! The Association is in "DEEP" enough doo-doo without stirring the 'pool' to the point that it would only serve to elicit latent faculties of an already questionable genetic background record!

It seems to me that those who are recommending such aberrant behavior are 'stirring' the bottom of the 'brain barrel' trusting that something intelligent might Pop Up! WRONG!. This whole panicky situation brings to mind the Idiotic, Stupid, Brainless actions our U.S. Government is engaged in at the present time, and demonstrates the Assinine thinking that our U.S. Senate members are laying before the American citizenry!

What Virus has invaded the brain cells of the human beings which are inhabiting the Earth at the present time? It is about time that our Good Lord cleansed the entire Gene Pool of Human Beings, and started over from scratch!

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS
 

alacattleman

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KNERSIE":1di17w7s said:
I don't think the beefmaster genepool is stable enough yet to allow for bringing other breeds in. Soon they'll lose their identity like some other breeds had.
you got that right...maybe if some breeders shuts the door on his herd for a few years,
 

bigbull338

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i talked to a friend of mine an he said he was staying away from BBUs new program.because in his eyes it wont help BBU.an that its only a way of bringing more money into the assoc.as for the black popping out.i got a red paint cow bred to a solid red bull.an her calf was a black an white paint.
 

bigbull338

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yeah thats what im thinking.an unless i change my mind that cow will get a free ride to town with her calf at weaning time.
 

Rustler9

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Well, is it coming from the cow or the bull or both? Are these registered cattle? If so, why are you getting rid of her since the association allows black in them? My point about the black in Beefmasters that I posted earlier is that every breed has bred Angus into them to change the color. I guess that they feel that they have to add black to compete, that their breed can't stand on it's own. It has to have the black color. I'm sure that the black and white paint calf is interesting to look at. Years ago we had some black and white paints when we bred out Beefmaster bull on some black crossbred cows. I like Beefmaster cattle, I don't care what color they are. I just know that the three original breeds that comprise the Beefmaster don't include black cattle, so it is obvious that Angus influence was added. Same as I like Longhorn cattle, the colors don't bother me. I really like the variations in color.
 

Frankie

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bigbull338":1foqvka4 said:
i talked to a friend of mine an he said he was staying away from BBUs new program.because in his eyes it wont help BBU.an that its only a way of bringing more money into the assoc.as for the black popping out.i got a red paint cow bred to a solid red bull.an her calf was a black an white paint.

Not to highjack the thread, but how did the premire beefmaster sale go?
 

RobertMac

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Doc, it's been a while since I had genetics, but it's my understanding that crossbreeding covers genetic flaws and linebreeding exposes genetic flaws so they can be eliminated. Crossbreeding should be for the commercial producer, not the "purebred" breeder.

These registries for crossbreds are to bring in money and eventually members by introducing them to the associations. I think their best value would be in connection with branded beef programs...like making CAB actually require Angus breeding! I think every breed association should have a branded beef program with producers/members owning the beef coming out of the processing plants.
 

RobertMac

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EC, one of your old post got me back to CT...I did a search for "Ole Yeller" and your thread came up. How are your Ole Yeller and L-5502 genetics working for you?

As for the black Beefmasters, I dropped out of SEBBA when their focus turned toward the blacks. My program is based on L-5502, Ole Yeller, and my functional BBU cattle which most go back to Robert E Lee. I have some Casey Bull semen to introduce later...also have a few straws of Ole Yeller. When I'm ready, I'm going to send the Ole Yeller to Dale Lasater to make me some embryos. :D
 
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