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Caustic Burno

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Ran them for the first half of the year looks like going to come in 1.13 to 1.16 a day. That is barring any unseen fubars
These are lower than last year by .35 to .40 that being fertilize cost.
All that said looks like it is roughly going to cost 420 bucks to keep old Belle standing in the pasture.
 
How about that....cleaning up washed out fences is cheaper then growing and baling hay...... :lol:
 
1982vett":3nptm2ur said:
How about that....cleaning up washed out fences is cheaper then growing and baling hay...... :lol:
Let us get a hurricane this year and they will go to OMG or I am through as I am too old to physically put this place back together
 
Caustic Burno":1qbm6v8x said:
Ran them for the first half of the year looks like going to come in 1.13 to 1.16 a day. That is barring any unseen fubars
These are lower than last year by .35 to .40 that being fertilize cost.
All that said looks like it is roughly going to cost 420 bucks to keep old Belle standing in the pasture.

That's going to serve well as prices dip this fall (if projections hold true). I was worried my $ 442 wasn't going to hold (about to start feeding hay) but we got 8/10ths last night and more supposed to be on the way. That will help. Here is hoping none of us find unpleasant surprises the rest of the year, and are pleasantly surprised when we sell. Prepare for the worst- and celebrate if it does not manifest.
 
Just the opposite here the grass is just now getting after it as it has been so wet.
Best move I ever made was getting out of the hay equipment fuel,fertilize along with maintainence cost. The fuel and fertilizer could have some wild swings from year to year.
 
Caustic, I do the same thing every year, and are numbers are pretty close. I'm at about $330 to carry a cow. My number was almost exactly yours, the year before. Last year, it was so wet that I didn't get down much fertilizer. That and ended up only bringing in about 40 rolls of outside hay. I like to mull over economics of size/ the law of diminishing marginal returns. Could I have brought my number down any more? I personally think I'm at about the floor. I could possibly run a few more head.
 
Bigfoot":2v6tanhs said:
Caustic, I do the same thing every year, and are numbers are pretty close. I'm at about $330 to carry a cow. My number was almost exactly yours, the year before. Last year, it was so wet that I didn't get down much fertilizer. That and ended up only bringing in about 40 rolls of outside hay. I like to mull over economics of size/ the law of diminishing marginal returns. Could I have brought my number down any more? I personally think I'm at about the floor. I could possibly run a few more head.

I reduced my resident herd and buy SS heavies in the spring according to pasture conditions and sell pairs in the fall. I don't think I can get any tighter
Keeping that tractor parked in the barn helps.
 
CB... just curious as to how many cows/acres are going onto this equation. I would think that stocking rates per acre would greatly influence hay cost not to mention what Mother Nature throws at us.
 
TN Cattle Man":3jash45l said:
CB... just curious as to how many cows/acres are going onto this equation. I would think that stocking rates per acre would greatly influence hay cost not to mention what Mother Nature throws at us.
Up to 40 on summer pasture sell down to 12 to 15 resident cows in winter.
I could carry 37 pairs year around with no problem and did till 2011 drought.
Changed operations after selling off 70% of my herd in 2011. Restock each spring with opportunity girls mainly SS heavies no more than 200 bucks over kill price.
 
Fertilizer staying at the Co-Op keeps the tractor and equipment out of the hay field, diesel doesn't get burned and equipment repair is almost nothing. A heck of a lot less work too.

Presently, I'm running a cow to 6 acres instead of a cow to 3 acres.
 
1982vett":1gj07xmo said:
Fertilizer staying at the Co-Op keeps the tractor and equipment out of the hay field, diesel doesn't get burned and equipment repair is almost nothing. A heck of a lot less work too.

Presently, I'm running a cow to 6 acres instead of a cow to 3 acres.
Amen brother and the fuel company not filling up that 300 gallon diesel tank two to three times a summer is real nice. The Mule gets more hours a year than anything around here now.
Hay baler only breaks down in the hay field and can make a preacher cuss.
The worst part is hay fields are like women they require lots of attention and money or they will up and leave you.
 
Caustic Burno":21hi24pi said:
1982vett":21hi24pi said:
Fertilizer staying at the Co-Op keeps the tractor and equipment out of the hay field, diesel doesn't get burned and equipment repair is almost nothing. A heck of a lot less work too.

Presently, I'm running a cow to 6 acres instead of a cow to 3 acres.
Amen brother and the fuel company not filling up that 300 gallon diesel tank two to three times a summer is real nice. The Mule gets more hours a year than anything around here now.
Hay baler only breaks down in the hay field and can make a preacher cuss.
The worst part is hay fields are like women they require lots of attention and money or they will up and leave you.

I have to say, I have spent much more time on the 4 wheeler and very little time behind the tractor. Made one cutting of hay, and bought the rest for that little birdie price. Sprayed the barnyard, and mowed a few fence rows and that's about it.
CB, with not fertilizing pasture this year (and keeping inputs down for this year), do you expect that to hurt you going into next year? (Inputs wise) or just chock this year as an anomaly and reset back to normal fertilizer routine next year? I been actively searching g out cheaper sources of fertilizer (pig and chicken manure).
 
It all depends on fertilize prices next year, of course the numbers will be up some. That gets offset some by carrying capacity I know that is clear as mud.
 
Caustic Burno":3rceeewg said:
It all depends on fertilize prices next year, of course the numbers will be up some. That gets offset some by carrying capacity I know that is clear as mud.

I followed. Thanks.
 
Ball. Looking back, my Dad would fertilize his hay meadows but I though he was always stingy with it. Ag classes would tell us fertilizer was key to growing forage. In 1995 he had bi-pass surgery and that fall wasn't able to ride a tractor very long. He got everything set up to throw fertilizer on his oat ground and after I got off work I threw it out for him. Well he tells me to drive 30 apart like the spreader said. Got it all out and came in the house he asks if I got it all covered. Told him I ran out and needed another load for the other 20 acres. The man almost had a heart attack.....he said that was supposed to do all of it. That's when I realized his 30 feet is actually about 60 feet. Kinda made sense if you ever saw the hay meadows he fertilized and pastures he sprayed. :lol: He had also had soil samples taken and had the oat ground limed. Plenty of rain too. I have pictures of him, he was a little over 6 ft tall, standing in the oats before we cut it. The oats was up to his neck.

Long story, but I used that to affirm heavy fertilizer use was the way to go. I grew a lot of forage using $200 a ton fertilizer. Problem was it didn't stay their. It hit $400 a ton and I could still grow the grass but everyone still wanted to pay $20 for a roll of hay. Then I get to where I throw out a $500 ton of fertilizer, get a half inch of rain and it doesn't rain again for 6 weeks. Yep, you got it. Around here, fertilizer doesn't do a thing without rain. Not hard to figure that out. By the time 2008 - 2011 got through with us in Texas, I had sold 75% of my cows and gone through what was supposed to be a 3 year surplus of hay I had on hand at the end of 2007. Left me with severely over grazed pastures.

Finally started getting relief when 2012 rolled in. I gave some credit to the bounce back in some pastures to the unused fertilizer residual from the lack of rain. Also the decreased numbers chasing a blade of grass certainly made a difference too. I still have to fight the urge to get that fertilizer wagon and throw out fertilizer every spring when those dark green spots begin to show up in the regress. Certainly an obvious visual how much the pasture could use a touch of fertilizer.

I have a point and am getting to it. Has to do with over grazing. I also remember somewhere along the way, being told that in order to grow forage you have to have a strong plant and that plant has to have a strong root system. Photosynthsis in the leaf feeds the root and the root provides the leaf with the nutrients needed for photosynthesis. Essentially in any species so grass, the deeper and stronger the root system, the taller and stronger the forage.

As comparison, last year by now we had gotten around 32 inches of rain. Had an abundance of grass. This year we are at abou 21 inches.......and as my steps one would say....a crapton of grass. Yes we had a milder winter that I'm sure played a part. Point I'm trying to get across is I'm no longer overstocked and over grazed. I'm pretty sure that is the reason, certainly not fertilizer. It's still at the Co-Op.

Last year it quit raining in June. Didn't start again till late October. I'm definitely not hoping for that again but I am anxious to seen how this summer turns out going into it with the pastures in great shape they are.

Fertilizer isn't the answer I thought it was 20 years ago.

Keep the rains comming.
 
1982vett":16wib42g said:
Ball. Looking back, my Dad would fertilize his hay meadows but I though he was always stingy with it. Ag classes would tell us fertilizer was key to growing forage. In 1995 he had bi-pass surgery and that fall wasn't able to ride a tractor very long. He got everything set up to throw fertilizer on his oat ground and after I got off work I threw it out for him. Well he tells me to drive 30 apart like the spreader said. Got it all out and came in the house he asks if I got it all covered. Told him I ran out and needed another load for the other 20 acres. The man almost had a heart attack.....he said that was supposed to do all of it. That's when I realized his 30 feet is actually about 60 feet. Kinda made sense if you ever saw the hay meadows he fertilized and pastures he sprayed. :lol: He had also had soil samples taken and had the oat ground limed. Plenty of rain too. I have pictures of him, he was a little over 6 ft tall, standing in the oats before we cut it. The oats was up to his neck.

Long story, but I used that to affirm heavy fertilizer use was the way to go. I grew a lot of forage using $200 a ton fertilizer. Problem was it didn't stay their. It hit $400 a ton and I could still grow the grass but everyone still wanted to pay $20 for a roll of hay. Then I get to where I throw out a $500 ton of fertilizer, get a half inch of rain and it doesn't rain again for 6 weeks. Yep, you got it. Around here, fertilizer doesn't do a thing without rain. Not hard to figure that out. By the time 2008 - 2011 got through with us in Texas, I had sold 75% of my cows and gone through what was supposed to be a 3 year surplus of hay I had on hand at the end of 2007. Left me with severely over grazed pastures.

Finally started getting relief when 2012 rolled in. I gave some credit to the bounce back in some pastures to the unused fertilizer residual from the lack of rain. Also the decreased numbers chasing a blade of grass certainly made a difference too. I still have to fight the urge to get that fertilizer wagon and throw out fertilizer every spring when those dark green spots begin to show up in the regress. Certainly an obvious visual how much the pasture could use a touch of fertilizer.

I have a point and am getting to it. Has to do with over grazing. I also remember somewhere along the way, being told that in order to grow forage you have to have a strong plant and that plant has to have a strong root system. Photosynthsis in the leaf feeds the root and the root provides the leaf with the nutrients needed for photosynthesis. Essentially in any species so grass, the deeper and stronger the root system, the taller and stronger the forage.

As comparison, last year by now we had gotten around 32 inches of rain. Had an abundance of grass. This year we are at abou 21 inches.......and as my steps one would say....a crapton of grass. Yes we had a milder winter that I'm sure played a part. Point I'm trying to get across is I'm no longer overstocked and over grazed. I'm pretty sure that is the reason, certainly not fertilizer. It's still at the Co-Op.

Last year it quit raining in June. Didn't start again till late October. I'm definitely not hoping for that again but I am anxious to seen how this summer turns out going into it with the pastures in great shape they are.

Fertilizer isn't the answer I thought it was 20 years ago.

Keep the rains comming.

Thank you for your feedback vett. If i followed you correctly, youre saying proper stocking and management over expense like fertilizers?
I do spend money on lime. Probably not what i should spend annually on fertilizer though.
And if i am being honest, i am overstocked right now. Usually get away with it due to rainfall, but this year has my eyes wide opened. I need more ground or less cattle. Again, thanks for your insight.
 
Vette I agree fertilizer isn't the answer went down the same road. I have a lot of creek bottom pastures great in a dry year. Years like this one you can tell the need for fertilizer due to it staying under water this winter. I even cut drainage ditches years ago to reduce standing water.
I actually cut my old hay field yesterday grass was chest deep cows wouldn't eat it as it had got so tough.
I had to keep them out till the start of this month due to water.
 
Caustic,,, I shall refrase or clarify " keep the rains comming". I mean in a timely fashion. 62 inches of rain last year didn't do anymore than 38 would have if it came in a timely fashion.

Bball....lime is where I do fall short. Most of mine called for a ton several years ago. I'm not sure that is enough to make a huge difference.....but maybe it would since I'm not fertilizing. Something to ponder and maybe experiment with.
 
Bball. I have to say another ace caustic and I have, as well as all us us in the southern US is our short or mild winters. While we wouldn't think of not having a barn full of hay....if the rains fall right we can have something to graze year round.

I carried 68 head through the winter on pasture and 5 tons of hay. The hay was fed in January over a couple weeks of heavy frost. Again, I had a very mild winter even though we did have a "snow" flurry and a week of cold weather.
 
Things have definitely changed for us also. We use to fertilize like clock work. When we saw the first coastal sprig go green we poured the fert to it. Usually had all the hay we needed by May and grazed the fields after that.

Now, I don't fertilize until I know the moisture is in the ground. Its cheaper to truck in quality hay or by ground feed than lose your fertilizer to a drought. Ill pay more for a guarantee then less for a gamble all day long.

Last year the only hay I fed was to animals in the pens... even thru the winter. We did not fertilize and will not be cutting hay this year. We are applying that money to double down on spraying brush and clearing land. With this amount of moisture its a good time for it. In my mind, opening up land and not having brush or weeds sucking up moisture is the best defense against the next drought.

I'm currently stocked just a little over the numbers we took thru the drought. I increased every property with heifers to get them in production knowing some of the older cows will need to come out in the next drought. One place we flat out cleared some land that has come back strong in klein grass. I increased the head count there based off that added acreage at the same cow/ ac drought ratio.
 

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