baldie/charlois cross bull calf?

[jvicars]

i have a charlois/bladie bull calf that is grey. from day one he came out musclar and bigger than the other calfs. looks like a good bull prospect. i have angus bulls on them now but sure looks like he may fill out nice.

question - is it worth putting a cross bull on as a hear bull. i have gone with black bulls but i am sure the trend will change at some point. my cows all cross bred commerical stuff.

comments on a cross bull as described? i plan to keep him to see how he fills out and then make a decision.

 

[KNERSIE]

He will breed very inconsistantly and might not pass the desired traits on to his calves as often as you'd like.

Rather buy a charolais or limousin bull if you'd like to add muscle and you'll get some heterosis to boot.

 

[dun]

Am I correct in assuming the bulls nake up is 1/2 charolais, 1/4 Hereford and 1/4 Angus?

 

[jvicars]

yes the cow is an angus/herford and the bull was a charlois.

 

[smnherf]

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i have a charlois/bladie bull calf that is grey. from day one he came out musclar and bigger than the other calfs. looks like a good bull prospect.

I am sure that the bull calf will probably grow out and look great, but the other posters have it correct. Your bull calf looks like what he does in a large part because you have maximized the amount of heterosis within him. His offspring will have very little hetersosis especially when crossed back on cows from the same herd of like genetics.

Brian

 

[ALACOWMAN]

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i have a charlois/bladie bull calf that is grey. from day one he came out musclar and bigger than the other calfs. looks like a good bull prospect.

I am sure that the bull calf will probably grow out and look great, but the other posters have it correct. Your bull calf looks like what he does in a large part because you have maximized the amount of heterosis within him. His offspring will have very little hetersosis especially when crossed back on cows from the same herd of like genetics.

Brian

that's a fact... the good things he see's in the bull aint locked in him through homozygosity. and his off spring's could be a grab bag

 

[dyates]

Wish you were in Kentucky instead of Florida. I might buy your bull. Most of my cows are of similar breeding. Everyone else here says not to use crossbred bulls. Why not for a commercial herd?
Let's just figure he weans at 800 lbs and brings .94/lb. That's $752. Now let's say you keep him until he's a three year old and weighs 2000 lbs at .56/lb. That's $1120. I can't see where you have anything to lose by keeping him long enough to try. I wouldn't breed him to the whole herd until I saw some results, but I might try breeding him to a couple of older cows and see what happens.
It also depends on what you intend to do with the resulting calves.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Wish you were in Kentucky instead of Florida. I might buy your bull. Most of my cows are of similar breeding. Everyone else here says not to use crossbred bulls.

• >Why not for a commercial herd?<

Let's just figure he weans at 800 lbs and brings .94/lb. That's $752. Now let's say you keep him until he's a three year old and weighs 2000 lbs at .56/lb. That's $1120. I can't see where you have anything to lose by keeping him long enough to try. I wouldn't breed him to the whole herd until I saw some results, but I might try breeding him to a couple of older cows and see what happens.
It also depends on what you intend to do with the resulting calves.

the commercial herds is what make's the majority of feedlots and they want consistency . and not have to run here and there to put a uniform group together. youll make more on a uniform group. you can do it with crossbred cows . but dont throw a mongrel in the mix

 

[jvicars]

i hear what everyone is saying and agree. i just got attached to this bull calfs when i saw his size and muscularity for a wk old calf. almost looks like an albino angus. the bull he came from must have been some bull.

 

[dyates]

the commercial herds is what make's the majority of feedlots and they want consistency . and not have to run here and there to put a uniform group together. youll make more on a uniform group. you can do it with crossbred cows . but dont throw a mongrel in the mix[/quote]


I can't disagree at all. However, I see people selling calves sired by simmi, gelbvieh, or anything else black and calling them angus. They bring just as much as angus sired calves. How can it be that buyers who can't tell an angus from a simmental know what consistency is?
Also, maybe our infrastructure is a little different up here. Very few people sell whole loads of uniform cattle.
The majority of lots at the stockyards are gooseneck loads. Buyers take cattle from many sellers and put together loads at the stockyards. This year, it seems color and consistency have almost nothing to do with pricing. Prices have been based almost exclusively on weight and conditioning.
Like I said before, I know your logic is correct and that's the way it should be. In some cases, though, it just doesn't seem to be true.

 

[KNERSIE]

you do realise this whole debate is over a week old calf? :roll:

 

[jvicars]

its not the week old calf its the concept. using a mutt bull that is built well vs a pure bull on mix cattle.

 

[dyates]

you do realise this whole debate is over a week old calf? :roll:

Nope. Sorry. That part came in a little late.

I just get a little ancy sometimes when people make such broad generalizations. We have a char/angus bull (not an f1) that we use on a commercial herd. He has consistently thrown more profitable calves than the last three purebred angus bulls we have had, handsdown. I know he is the exception rather than the rule. He is now a nine-year old and I think this grown man might cry when he goes to sale We have a son of the bull who now has calves on the ground. He shows a lot of promise

 

[ALACOWMAN]

you do realise this whole debate is over a week old calf? :roll:

Nope. Sorry. That part came in a little late.

I just get a little ancy sometimes when people make such broad generalizations.

• We have a char/angus bull (not an f1) that we use on a commercial herd.

He has consistently thrown more profitable calves than the last three purebred angus bulls we have had, handsdown. I know he is the exception rather than the rule. He is now a nine-year old and I think this grown man might cry when he goes to sale We have a son of the bull who now has calves on the ground. He shows a lot of promise

and your bull has some consistancy bred in him as well. your talking something completely different now

 

[TB-Herefords]

Taking most advantage of heterosis is British F1 cow on a Continental Terminal sire. In your calve you've seen that. So stick with the program.

 

[Aero]

Why not for a commercial herd?

because most commercial producers have higher standards than registered breeders.

 

[novatech]

Why not for a commercial herd?

because most commercial producers have higher standards than registered breeders.

Maybe in your area but from what I have seen most commercial breeders do not have a plan much less standards. They have no history on their cattle. Everything is judged by phenotype alone. Most herds are not uniform.
Having said that, I have also noticed that there are more people buying F1's (Braford in this area) for the pasture. Some are going back with continental bull and some are using European. Personally I beleave the continental will add a little more heterosis, and they fair well at the barn.
Commercial cattle people are becoming more educated and leaving the this is the way daddy did it attitude behind.
May not make any difference. Seems like the city folk are taking over and breeding longhorns to angus to clear their brush and get marbling at the same time. Some even include alpacas. Now that is heterosis. :lol:
Almost forgot to answer the original question. I beleive what you have is a terminal cross. Not the best for using as a bull.

 

[jvicars]

i am going off topic on the thread however after reading a few studies by big universities the most profitable producers put the least into their cattle and have mixed commerical cattle. around here black calves, bladies and charloias is what sells best. from what i have seen is low cost input with average output seems to produce the most profitable cattle. one of the moust successful financql cattle operations i know is a older guy with mixed cattle and bulls (all the bulls are sound and well muscled but mixed). How do I know? I am a CPA and do taxes for several cattle operations. I do have some inside info that lets me see what works.

one of the least successful is a brangus operation with high cattle costs.

just my obervations.

 

[novatech]

i am going off topic on the thread however after reading a few studies by big universities the most profitable producers put the least into their cattle and have mixed commerical cattle. around here black calves, bladies and charloias is what sells best. from what i have seen is low cost input with average output seems to produce the most profitable cattle. one of the moust successful financql cattle operations i know is a older guy with mixed cattle and bulls (all the bulls are sound and well muscled but mixed). How do I know? I am a CPA and do taxes for several cattle operations. I do have some inside info that lets me see what works.
one of the least successful is a brangus operation with high cattle costs.


just my obervations.

I appreciate your insider information. But I am willing to bet that the same people could make even more on a better selection of cows. Why? It is not their cows it is their ability to control costs and select good crossbreds. Unfortunatly most people buy into thinking you have to pay more for better quality cattle. So somehow in their brain because they pay more they get more. I do not beleive it is the type of cattle so much as their ability to make money by controling cost and no dought their ability to select good crossbred cattle.

 

[jvicars]

novatech- i agree on your point. i try to buy less popular cows - herefords, horned cows etc. I then try to put a black bull on them and i get black cows that do well at the market. i also try to choose smaller framed cows and stay away for anything 1200 lbs or bigger. Just does not make sense for my little operation. I get the same calves out of the small cows and a black bull keeps the buyers happing. I am not a huge fan of angus bulls but that is what gives me black calves so i go with the market.