Aubrac bull photos

[novatech]

Genetics not size,weight, frame score,or whatever determines efficiency.

http://www.geneticsolutions.com.au/file ... 010_FE.pdf

Get a contemporary group of equal size, weight and of the same breed together for testing. Does any one think they will all eat the same amount and end up weighing the same thing in the end? Do you think they will convert feed or grass the same? Do you want an animal that converts at 3 to 1 or one that converts at 5 to 1?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc, just for the sake of sparring. When you are talking cow weight why does that take precedence over cow size. Smaller framed, tubby cows that are in good rig will weigh up in a heart beat.

SEC-

I was not intending to oppose the vernacular of SIZE vs. WEIGHT (pounds) vs. FRAME SCORE in my comments. I think that it would parallel the analogy of contrasting Oranges and Tangerines grown on the same tree by grafting. I was not intending for cow weight to take precedence over cow size.


There would be a 'most desirable' focal point on a sum of vectors chart (SIZE on one component vector and WEIGHT on the other component vector) - the so-called "Ultimate Point of Perfection" being where the two extensions bisect, balancing weights and frame scores. Somewhere in this formula enters the 'elusive' "Body Conditioning Score" Wizard which introduces yet another aspect of "desirable relativity" in arriving at the PERFECT $PROFIT Brood Cow, at the same time excluding the Indexes which predicts the profitability of a Cow or a Bull - EPD's!

. . .And there is one last 'Swan Song' trait which must be considered: the ability of our "Perfect $Profit" brood Cow to extend her productive years into the future and produce calves year after year for 12 to 15 years or more before being subjected to her FINAL HARVEST - the market. It sounds a little harsh, but the cows and bulls are our manufacturing machinery, and when they are no longer profitable to the operation, they need replacing.

To NOT replace our Maternal cow herd genetics with modest SIZED cows is tantamount to throwing money into a gopher hole - $75 - $100 more profit per year, to be almost exact!

DOC HARRIS

Doc I see you are still selling snake oil at the "moderate sized cow" carnival. Moderate sized cows have their place but they are NOT the end all be all to every cattleman. The presentation of relative analysis and comparative values are often transposed in an attempt to successfully lobby an arguement. Most of the presentations that support the moderate sized cow either leave out the appropriate counter analysis or their implication is merely academic. Supporting evidence does exist to fuel your continuous agruement, however the final application and management of your analysis are often times unpractical or are not real life depictions of the everyday cattleman.

To apply proper consulting standards you must gather information specific to the situation in order to determine if the moderate sized cow is an appropriate choice. Doc you are globalizing an idea that is at best a regional arguement.

So stop being a hard ass

kv(Bob)-

WOW!! I would say that is pretty direct!

Most cattlemen will agree, I am sure, that raising beef cattle for a living is a daunting task at best - the ultimate justification being PROFIT at the time of closing the financial books at the end of the year. Beef Cattle Production, in my opinion, is one of the MOST demanding of time and knowledge, and challenging undertakings in the profession of Agriculture by virtue of the fact that so many facets of management are involved in arriving at a successful conclusion, and the affirmation of those efforts is unique in that it requires many years of making minimal errors in order to be victorious.

The expressions of my opinions and judgements regarding "moderate sized cows" were not meant to be taken as acerbic or dogmatic - just resolute, purposeful and - yes - even tenacious! I have witnessed cattlemen, and other livestock producers, embracing philosophies that they felt were apropos to their particular circumstances at the time, and being reasonably successful in the endeavor. By the same token, I have also seen some fail totally in the process! As "they" say, "It's the way the mop flops!"

I have carefully perused my previous references to "cow size", and failed to find much justification for considering them "snake oil", as I DO have supporting evidence to assert the effectiveness of those statements! However, if you consider my suggestions argumentative, uninformed and not practical, it is certainly your prerogative to choose to ignore them - in their entirety! It is your option to accede to local knowledge and customs.

Why - - I might even modify my philosophy of "Appropriate Beef Cattle Management!" :lol2:

DON'T bet the farm on that possibility though!

. . .and I have already commented in a previous post regarding the possibility of my being a hard ass-

DOC HARRIS

 

[Chuckie]

Doc,
I am behind you on this! I think this breed of cow makes sense. I don't care what kind of campaign any breed pushes, these cattle have it all. Less to feed, more carcass to sell.
I can compare them to the Piedmontese. I saw several different breed mixes out in a 600 acre pasture. Sometimes they came up for hay and sometimes they didn't.
The Angus, Baldies, Belgian Blue, etc....came up looking like they could stand more groceries. The Piedmontese came up looking fit. They weren't fat, but they were well muscled and looked absolutely beautiful.

I would like to have a Aubrac heifer to see what I could raise. The Piedmontese cattle want to leave more of a light circle around the eyes and nosel. BUt the Aubracs seem to throw a black nose too.

 

[OK Jeanne]

I would like to try a couple of straws of semen from this
breed on a murray grey cow to see what we would get.
If anyone knows of one of these bulls that not only looks
good but also has all 6 of the GeneStar tenderness factors,
please send me a note.

 

[Chuckie]

Does anyone have a picture of an Aubrac cross with an Angus?
I personally like the Aubrac like they are, but the buyer here discounts if it isn't black. So.......
Chuckie

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Does anyone have a picture of an Aubrac cross with an Angus?
I personally like the Aubrac like they are, but the buyer here discounts if it isn't black. So.......
Chuckie

then id stay with black if thats the case. adding more pounds wont help if the buyer's smell a rat

 

[Aubracusa]

Hello --

Below are links to two Aubrac X Angus 11-month-old bulls. These are all I've got at this point, but I'll do some checking around. It was cold that day -- the wind was blowing at about 40 miles an hour -- and the ground was frozen hard. All the calves were a little "hunched up." The calf looking to the right is 25% Angus and a son of Maximus (the bull in my first post); the second is a true halfblood (it's not the best photo, but this was a very functional, good-doing calf). The first sold to a ranch in northern New Mexico, the second to a ranch in western Colorado.

In defense of Doc Harris and the "snake oil" comment. I think if you ever had the opportunity to meet Doc in person, you'd understand he's a man of great wisdom and integrity. He's not peddling cattle here; he's an important participant in the arena of ideas, and forcefully and convincingly partaking in an discussion about where this industry is today, and where it needs to be tomorrow. I know Doc personally, and have benefited greatly not only from our numerous conversations, but also from his postings on this discussion board. He's an educator, mentor and a good man -- the industry needs a few more like him.

http://cattletoday.com/photos/showphoto ... puser=3755

http://cattletoday.com/photos/showphoto ... mit=recent

Best,

aubracusa

 

[Aubracusa]

Hello --

I've started updating the Aubrac website and as of this afternoon it contains some new photos and information.

Please click: http://www.aubracusa.com

Thanks again for your interest,

Aubracusa

 

[Chuckie]

ALACOWMAN, If I had one heifer, I could see where it would go with the offspring and the buyer. The pictures that were posted of the Angus/Aubrac, they have the look of Angus. It would be interesting to see how they weighed out with our Angus calves. "I could call this "experiment #1"
I am going to check out the Aubracusa web site and see what's happening.
Chuckie

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Hello --

I've started updating the Aubrac website and as of this afternoon it contains some new photos and information.

Please click: http://www.aubracusa.com

Thanks again for your interest,

Aubracusa

are you and AREO the same person?not that it matter's i see he is a aubrac breeder. thought he was just angus. the aubrac's are impressive though alot of pro's

 

[Aubracusa]

Hello --

I've started updating the Aubrac website and as of this afternoon it contains some new photos and information.

Please click: http://www.aubracusa.com

Thanks again for your interest,

Aubracusa

are you and AREO the same person?not that it matter's i see he is a aubrac breeder. thought he was just angus. the aubrac's are impressive though alot of pro's

Nope. Aero is much more technically savvy than I am, and would have a nicer-looking website than this. Aero and I met this spring, and after his "journey" to find a breed of cattle that he liked (I believe he visited a dozen or so different breeds during the last year) he decided to go with Aubracs this spring. He attended our first-ever National Aubrac sale in March (not to buy, but to evaluate), then he and I traveled to Nebraska in April for a one-day field day. It gave him and several other guests the opportunity to look at several different herdsires and their calves, and to see varying levels of percentage to fullblood Aubrac cattle.

You might want to ask him directly why he chose Aubracs after looking at so many different breeds, but I think he sees the breed as an ideal complement to Angus-based genetics.

Best,

aubracusa
http://www.aubracusa.com

 

[Badlands]

Most of the presentations that support the moderate sized cow either leave out the appropriate counter analysis or their implication is merely academic.

Please expound.

Supporting evidence does exist to fuel your continuous agruement, however the final application and management of your analysis are often times unpractical or are not real life depictions of the everyday cattleman.

If the supporting evidence does exist, then how does the final application and management become impractical? How is it that changing cow size to make more money is impractical? Maybe everyday cattlemen are unwilling to make more money regardless of the argument/evidence? Maybe they are stuck in the rut suggested by the guys with larger cows? :shock:

To apply proper consulting standards you must gather information specific to the situation in order to determine if the moderate sized cow is an appropriate choice. Doc you are globalizing an idea that is at best a regional arguement.

I would suggest that the larger cow has more of a regional application and the moderate cow has a larger global(national) application. If you want to really talk global, the smaller cows have the largest application. Yes, I know what you meant when you said "global". I also realize where the cows are in the USA, most of them could benefit from being a little smaller, not larger.

Badlands

 

[AlaAubrac]

Hello everyone this is my first post so please be kind. I become involved in this breed and I love it. For the record I live in Northeast Alabama any I own a small mixed herd. I enjoy cattle and I find things about all the breeds that I like. Some drive chev's and some dive Ford!! I'll not down any breed of cow. I have recently purchased a pure Aubrac bull and he is scheduled to be in Alabama within a week he name is Bruce and is around 2000 pounds. He will be the only Aubrac (I think) in the south. I will try to load a picture and I am excited to read your comments. [/img]

 

[april2982]

I have to say in all the years i have seen cattle these are very beautiful creatures... and what a nice bull to throw such eye catching off spring!!!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Hello everyone this is my first post so please be kind. I become involved in this breed and I love it. For the record I live in Northeast Alabama any I own a small mixed herd. I enjoy cattle and I find things about all the breeds that I like. Some drive chev's and some dive Ford!! I'll not down any breed of cow. I have recently purchased a pure Aubrac bull and he is scheduled to be in Alabama within a week he name is Bruce and is around 2000 pounds. He will be the

• only Aubrac (I think) in the south.

I will try to load a picture and I am excited to read your comments. [/img]

welcome, what about that breeder in fort payne? are be, you be, he be

 

[AlaAubrac]

Yes that would be me! I am and will be

 

[shortyjock89]

These Aubracs..wow..they are truly a creature to behold. Now, I don't think that they are going to light up the show ring any time soon, but they are a magnificent beef animal. And those calves are really eye catching!! I think that if they were crossed with some British breeds, that you could really have some offspring that would work in all facets of today's beef industry.

 

[AlaAubrac]

Ok I have a pic of Double O Six Bruce in the Photo Gallary> Give me some feed back, I would like to hear what everyone thinks. Soory I cannot get the pic in this posting![/url]

 

[ALACOWMAN]

he looks good with a little more development he'll look just like the first bull

 

[Aero]

howdy all, sorry i have had very little internet access for last 3 weeks or so and am currently living in a farm house without a phone or computer after moving back to NC. there might be a few consecutive responses here...

Net feed efficiency tests are the only way to truely judge the costs of keeping and produceing cattle.

if you are looking at the efficiency of a feeder calf while retaining ownership through the feedlot, this might be true, but not so true in the more common world of selling calves.

the true efficiency measure is the profitability of each calf. this would require knowing how much expense a cow has incurred and the same for the calf. this includes how much grass (and/or supplement) they consume. for simplicity, we have to look at how much the cow consumed and what the calf brought when sold. this is the real efficiency.

from everything i have read, metabolic weight is about the only way to figure out how much a cow eats and i have explained this before in other threads. it would muddy the waters in this thread, so i will let you search for it if you are inclined to.