Are they worth the investment?

[Brute 23]

The thing I like about good Brafords is they hold their value really well. They are very marketable, even up in age, if you need to liquidate for droughts, losing lease places, or what ever the situation.

I see a lot of junk, hatchet azz, Bradfords come across for sale too. Quality is still quality and junk is still junk no matter the breed.

 

[dieselbeef]

yer cousin is right. depending on how yer selling them is the deciding factor..i have purebred beefmasters. not registered...

privately they sell for more..

at the barn..this last time we beat the avg..but usually run mid stream

 

[1982vett]

I'm just messing with you guys. I've always had black cattle so thought I'd change it up this year and buy 30-40 braford or tiger stripes bred heifers. Everybody I know told me they was too high, bred too slow, and the bags went bad too quick. I called 5-6 different folks about buying some and when I brought any of that stuff up .... wow it made them a little mad. I ended up going back with a set of blacks that have turned out really nice. I would still like to try some brafords I just can't make it pencil out for me right now. I never thought I'd say this but year after year my more Angus type cows have turned out better than any of my Brangus type cows.

Years ago a man around here would put together a set of 75 or so Braford heifers that weighed around 650 then keep them till they were 7-8 months bred and put them in the fall special sale. They were a set of babydolls but I never could figure out how people thought they could make money on them. They always brought at least a $500 premium over other heifers in the sale.

Yeah, a guy putting together a set of 75 is a good source for "problem cattle".

 

[ALACOWMAN]

yer cousin is right. depending on how yer selling them is the deciding factor..i have purebred beefmasters. not registered...

privately they sell for more..

at the barn..this last time we beat the avg..but usually run mid stream

Thats another to go,by using a """good""beefmaster bull on a group of commercial cows.. The right one can even make a cull cow shine at calving..those calves will make your mouth water...

 

[Lazy M]

I've always been willing to pay no more than 20% more for breeding stock above what they'd go for at market. So if you think they'd bring $1000 at the yards, I'd go as high as $1200 if I think they're fancy.. anymore than that and I feel like a sucker. This is speaking from a commercial perspective..I have no reference when it comes to seedstock..

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Seed stock prices are over the place,and whatever someone is willing to pay..but so are good F1s..for a commercial producer the money is in the F1s..mine lasted into the 20's still have some simbrah's that's in their mid 20s ..they may need to roll,but its hard to let go.

 

[jltrent]

Currently, I am successfully engaged in pig breeding, dairy, and specialized beef cattle breeding.

You have a lot going on. A lot of good info here could probably be a help for your business.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm looking for some input here from guys/gals with long standing operations consisting of half blooded brahman cattle in the South
I had a pretty long winded conversation with a cousin of mine about the initial input cost of F1 cows vs your average commercial cow purchased from the sale barn
We're both young (late 20's) and have small scale operations of around 35 cows.

He's of the belief that buying an f1 for a premium is ridiculous because "all she'll ever give you is a calf - same as any cheaper cow from the sale barn"

I'm of the opinion that f1 cattle hold their value....not cheap when you buy and not cheap when you sell...
We're hitting 100 degrees in Louisiana right now and an F1 will still be up hustling and raising a good calf

Anyone here had the same conversation with fellows cattleman/cattlewomen? :tiphat:

Well he isn't factoring in the longevity.
The F-1 Brimmer will be productive in her twenties on good grass.
How many replacements did he buy in that timeframe?

 

[Clint_Johnson]

Currently, I am successfully engaged in pig breeding, dairy, and specialized beef cattle breeding.

How are you doing with the pig breeding? The only experience I have with pigs is my sons FFA hog that he showed 2 nights ago at our local fair. How much feed are you feeding and are you able to turn much of a profit?

 

[LauraleesFarm]

I raise commercial Brahman cattle and their crosses.

Typically run 2 herds these days, but was running 4 herds prior to 2020. I keep my heifers and do not want to buy replacements at the sale barn. For the heifers, I have put Hereford and also Angus bulls on them, and some years Brahman bulls. There are many pros and cons for high percentage and purebreds! I will attempt to summarize:

CONS:
NOT for beginners--these cattle are very athletic and if mishandled can get PO'd quickly
Require tall stout working pens
Breeding stock cost more for startup
Heifers WILL NOT get pregnant until they weigh a good 900-1000#
Lots of Brahman will be horned
Cows WILL NOT breed back if thin or stressed
Maternal traits can be pretty strong, better be able to read a cow's mood.
Bad genetics exist--attitude, big teats, bad feet, and bad eyelids having to be tacked up due to excess skin folds.
Not very cold tolerant and will need supplementation.
Must be handled differently to pen--you lead them, don't chase them. Flight zone is larger. Keep them at a walk and don't rush them. It has to be their idea sometimes. Once they are PO'd just give it up and try again another day.
Male offspring will take a hit at the salebarn.
Brahman bulls are not usually good on heifers. Calves can get big. Purebred x purebred is an acceptable risk. But Brahman bull over British cross heifers is a bad idea.

PROS:
Insect resistance is real.
Maternal traits--the ultimate cross for ANY other breed, and the resulting females will be superior to both of the parents in productivity and efficiency.
They know who belongs and who does not. Will chase strangers, dogs, any intruder.
They will survive in hot humid conditions where other cattle will suffer.
They live and produce longer--into their teens and sometimes 20's. They have long hard teeth and they don't lose them. You can sometimes haul a teenaged cow to the salebarn and she will mouth as a 6 year old.
A good Brahman bull, and good Brahman semen, is available affordably.
Easier to sell privately than other cattle.
I have never had a Brahman cow prolapse or have eye cancer. I have never seen any of my Brahman standing in the pond, EVER.
These cattle will trust their owner, they are intelligent, and they know exactly who is safe. A stranger can't just walk among them or handle them without a reaction. If a truck and trailer pulls up to the corral, they take off in the other direction. This makes them slightly more theft-proof.

Once you have a set of well uddered, good natured Brahman females, you can move forward. I would not assemble them from the salebarn as a rule. But if you know what you are looking at, there are sometimes good ones at the barn, just have to know what you are buying and be willing to cull hard if they aren't good.

 

[Warren Allison]

I'm looking for some input here from guys/gals with long standing operations consisting of half blooded brahman cattle in the South
I had a pretty long winded conversation with a cousin of mine about the initial input cost of F1 cows vs your average commercial cow purchased from the sale barn
We're both young (late 20's) and have small scale operations of around 35 cows.

He's of the belief that buying an f1 for a premium is ridiculous because "all she'll ever give you is a calf - same as any cheaper cow from the sale barn"

I'm of the opinion that f1 cattle hold their value....not cheap when you buy and not cheap when you sell...
We're hitting 100 degrees in Louisiana right now and an F1 will still be up hustling and raising a good calf

Anyone here had the same conversation with fellow cattleman/cattlewomen? :tiphat:

I agree with your opinion. I spent this past winter putting together a herd of 1st and 2nd calf cows for a south GA client...Br x Hereford and Hereford x Brahmas, as well as purebred Brafords. We gave as much for the 1/2Br/1/2 Herf as we did purebred Brafords....sometimes a little less, but often a little more. Those cows and heifers of that cross sells as high as any other commercial cattle around here. As much or more as commercial Brangus. They have a reputation of being very good mommas. I got some from a breeder who kinda specializes in breeding 1/2 Brahma replacement heifers for folks, He will custom breed whatever you want. This year he had bred 50 Brahmas to a registered Black Hereford bull...homozygous black and homozygous polled. He AI's using sexed semen, and had contracted for I think 40, might have been 35, heifers at $1500 each, to be picked up at weaning in 6 mos. He breeds in May to have February calves, and this year he was gonna breed 75 of his Brahma cows that way for the same customer.

About 30 years ago, I had a neighbor that decided to develope his own bucking bulls..3 way crosses of LH, Brahma and Chiania. Once he had enough 3 way crosses, he started selling off some of the 2 ways. . I bought his 1/2 Brahma, 12 Chiania heifers and cows..big ole white cows that were calf-raising machines. Chiania are as heat, insect and parasite tolerant as Brahma, as wel as being cold tolerant. I bred the heifers to Angus, and a couple of years I got talked into breeding some to a polled Charolais bull. I developed a deep hatred of the pallet-headed cow-killer Char and Simmental in the early 70's, but OMG!! What a hell of a big ole pretty white calf those produced. Yes, they wouldn't bring as much per pound as the steers by the Angus bulls, but they'd weigh 150 lbs or so more at 6 mos than the Angus x steers, so brought as much or more money. Never fooled with those heifers..just sold them at weaning too. But another neighbor would buy them. who had registered Simmentals. Real simmentals, the red & white kind. He'd breed these heifers to a polled Hereford bull for their 1st calf, then the rest of the time he'd breed them to his SImm bulls. Both yielded big old yellow & white calves. I have no idea how these sold, though.
I tell ya, if I were young enough to get back into cow/calf, other than Corriente cows, I would probaly use that Brahma/ Chiania cross. LIke yiu said, they;d be out in the field at 2 PM eating like they were starving, on days like today. That seems to be a thing with some people that try to dis black cattle by saying they lay in the water all day. Al the ones I ever had did as well. Or course , they grazed from dusk, all through the night til noon the next day, but some people want cows to stand out in the sun on summer afternoons for some reason. Hell, I guess I am like a black cow, because in the summer, I am liable to sit in the pool, lake or creek myself from 11AM til after 5, and no one EVER called me skinny!! LOL

 

[Caustic Burno]

I raise commercial Brahman cattle and their crosses.

Typically run 2 herds these days, but was running 4 herds prior to 2020. I keep my heifers and do not want to buy replacements at the sale barn. For the heifers, I have put Hereford and also Angus bulls on them, and some years Brahman bulls. There are many pros and cons for high percentage and purebreds! I will attempt to summarize:

CONS:
NOT for beginners--these cattle are very athletic and if mishandled can get PO'd quickly
Require tall stout working pens
Breeding stock cost more for startup
Heifers WILL NOT get pregnant until they weigh a good 900-1000#
Lots of Brahman will be horned
Cows WILL NOT breed back if thin or stressed
Maternal traits can be pretty strong, better be able to read a cow's mood.
Bad genetics exist--attitude, big teats, bad feet, and bad eyelids having to be tacked up due to excess skin folds.
Not very cold tolerant and will need supplementation.
Must be handled differently to pen--you lead them, don't chase them. Flight zone is larger. Keep them at a walk and don't rush them. It has to be their idea sometimes. Once they are PO'd just give it up and try again another day.
Male offspring will take a hit at the salebarn.
Brahman bulls are not usually good on heifers. Calves can get big. Purebred x purebred is an acceptable risk. But Brahman bull over British cross heifers is a bad idea.

PROS:
Insect resistance is real.
Maternal traits--the ultimate cross for ANY other breed, and the resulting females will be superior to both of the parents in productivity and efficiency.
They know who belongs and who does not. Will chase strangers, dogs, any intruder.
They will survive in hot humid conditions where other cattle will suffer.
They live and produce longer--into their teens and sometimes 20's. They have long hard teeth and they don't lose them. You can sometimes haul a teenaged cow to the salebarn and she will mouth as a 6 year old.
A good Brahman bull, and good Brahman semen, is available affordably.
Easier to sell privately than other cattle.
I have never had a Brahman cow prolapse or have eye cancer. I have never seen any of my Brahman standing in the pond, EVER.
These cattle will trust their owner, they are intelligent, and they know exactly who is safe. A stranger can't just walk among them or handle them without a reaction. If a truck and trailer pulls up to the corral, they take off in the other direction. This makes them slightly more theft-proof.

Once you have a set of well uddered, good natured Brahman females, you can move forward. I would not assemble them from the salebarn as a rule. But if you know what you are looking at, there are sometimes good ones at the barn, just have to know what you are buying and be willing to cull hard if they aren't good.

Very well written.
I started this dance at 14 with Brimmer cows.
You nailed it.

 

[Warren Allison]

I raise commercial Brahman cattle and their crosses.

Typically run 2 herds these days, but was running 4 herds prior to 2020. I keep my heifers and do not want to buy replacements at the sale barn. For the heifers, I have put Hereford and also Angus bulls on them, and some years Brahman bulls. There are many pros and cons for high percentage and purebreds! I will attempt to summarize:

CONS:
NOT for beginners--these cattle are very athletic and if mishandled can get PO'd quickly
Require tall stout working pens
Breeding stock cost more for startup
Heifers WILL NOT get pregnant until they weigh a good 900-1000#
Lots of Brahman will be horned
Cows WILL NOT breed back if thin or stressed
Maternal traits can be pretty strong, better be able to read a cow's mood.
Bad genetics exist--attitude, big teats, bad feet, and bad eyelids having to be tacked up due to excess skin folds.
Not very cold tolerant and will need supplementation.
Must be handled differently to pen--you lead them, don't chase them. Flight zone is larger. Keep them at a walk and don't rush them. It has to be their idea sometimes. Once they are PO'd just give it up and try again another day.
Male offspring will take a hit at the salebarn.
Brahman bulls are not usually good on heifers. Calves can get big. Purebred x purebred is an acceptable risk. But Brahman bull over British cross heifers is a bad idea.

PROS:
Insect resistance is real.
Maternal traits--the ultimate cross for ANY other breed, and the resulting females will be superior to both of the parents in productivity and efficiency.
They know who belongs and who does not. Will chase strangers, dogs, any intruder.
They will survive in hot humid conditions where other cattle will suffer.
They live and produce longer--into their teens and sometimes 20's. They have long hard teeth and they don't lose them. You can sometimes haul a teenaged cow to the salebarn and she will mouth as a 6 year old.
A good Brahman bull, and good Brahman semen, is available affordably.
Easier to sell privately than other cattle.
I have never had a Brahman cow prolapse or have eye cancer. I have never seen any of my Brahman standing in the pond, EVER.
These cattle will trust their owner, they are intelligent, and they know exactly who is safe. A stranger can't just walk among them or handle them without a reaction. If a truck and trailer pulls up to the corral, they take off in the other direction. This makes them slightly more theft-proof.

Once you have a set of well uddered, good natured Brahman females, you can move forward. I would not assemble them from the salebarn as a rule. But if you know what you are looking at, there are sometimes good ones at the barn, just have to know what you are buying and be willing to cull hard if they aren't good.

Excellent post. I agree 100% with everything you said. I love what you said about " They know who belongs and who does not. Will chase strangers, dogs, any intruder." I will not get around any cattle on foot. Everything I do and have ever done, is on horse back. Anytime I had Brahmas on the places I lived, there were horses, there as well. They would always be in the same or adjoining pastures. I could always work my Brahmas as easy, or sometimes easier, on horse back than on foot. But if I had a new horse.. one I had never worked them with or pastured with or next to, they'd be leary, sometimes down right spooky of it! i might could have help with me that they hadn't seen, but if he was on one of my horses they were used to, they'd be ok. I always talked to them, r sang to them, anytime I was fooling with them, and they knew my voice from other people's.
Brahmas are interesting. I swear, some of them can be quite personable, and I have seem some that were raised right and handled right, that were gentler than a Guernsey milk cow. I would almost say they may be more intelligent than bos taurus cattle.

 

[Clint_Johnson]

Brahmas are interesting. I swear, some of them can be quite personable, and I have seem some that were raised right and handled right, that were gentler than a Guernsey milk cow. I would almost say they may be more intelligent than bos taurus cattle.

I can attest to this. We bought 2 purebred Brahman heifers early this spring, and my kids (15 and 6) go out and feed them range cubes out of their hands. They are the two calmest cows on our farm

 

[Aero]

I'm looking for some input here from guys/gals with long standing operations consisting of half blooded brahman cattle in the South
I had a pretty long winded conversation with a cousin of mine about the initial input cost of F1 cows vs your average commercial cow purchased from the sale barn
We're both young (late 20's) and have small scale operations of around 35 cows.

He's of the belief that buying an f1 for a premium is ridiculous because "all she'll ever give you is a calf - same as any cheaper cow from the sale barn"

I'm of the opinion that f1 cattle hold their value....not cheap when you buy and not cheap when you sell...
We're hitting 100 degrees in Louisiana right now and an F1 will still be up hustling and raising a good calf

Anyone here had the same conversation with fellow cattleman/cattlewomen? :tiphat:

If the question is about the value of F1 hybrid vigor, it mainly comes down to how many more calves will you get over a regular commercial cow. Fertility, weaned calf percentage, number of calves weaned over lifetime are all improved and will be the bulk of that value. Growth is a small factor but could help the calves be worth a small percentage more but not enough to warrant a much higher price for the heifer.

Developing your own heifers almost alwys costs more than you think so just imagine buying both to stay out of that argument. I would have to go back and read more to remember the real numbers but this is mostly how the math goes:

**These are not real numbers - just showing the value calculation!

Make these assumptions/guesses

Commercial straight bred heifer costs $1800 and weans 6 500 lb cows before culled for $700
500 lb calf sells for $1.50/lb = $750
Heifer development cost per calf = ($1800 - $700)/6 = $1100/6 = $183 charged to every calf


F1 heifer costs $2000 and weans 8 520 lb calves before being culled for $700.
520 lb calf sells for $1.48/lb = $764
Heifer development cost per calf = ($2000 - $700)/8 = $1300/8 = $163 charged to every calf.

In my opinion, the more valuable aspect of buying F1 heifers is that you can buy more moderate females from someone who intentionally has the genetics to thrive in your environment as a cow with lower inputs (feed and labor). After you have the optimized moderate cow you can put a completely terminal bull on all of them. Buying females out of terminal genetics is pointless and erases most of the value in this process.