anyone seen this yet?

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how pathetic...I have no sympathy for prosecutors, If its not a slam dunk win for their official record they will not file charges...poor dogs, Im not so sure the shooter would still be upright had they been mine.
 
Thats a shame if they don't prosecute thats pretty pathetic casue it sounds liek a fairly strong case against him. He jsut gave cattle producers a bad name also by doing that. I can see why he kind of did it if he has had lots of trouble with packs of abandoned dogs attacking his cattle which is a shame but he should of used some common sense also. If i was the dog owners i would sue him if he isn't prosecuted and probably sue him anyway. Its to bad some people don't think before they do things like that. The county should have maybe taken care of dog problems if there were abandoned ones out there. The public land will probably be closed now to the public casue of this. Had it happen a few years ago but it was an accident. There was a gravel pit owned by the state along a highway were people went fishing and there were some gravle piles there also so people would go shooting there and sight in their rifles. Someone missed the sand pile and the bullet travled through a corn feild a couple hundered yards to a pasture and hit a cow and killed it. The people that owned the cow didn't find it till that fall and even though they didn't want the sand pit cloed to the public it was until they bought it jsut this year from the state of Iowa.
 
I expect ole Rodney's side of the story is much different.

If you start feeling "impassioned" about a news story, check to see your chain isn't being yanked.
 
if dogs have collars and name plates on and a persons truck and trailer is sitting right there...common sense would tell anyone them arent strays. it coulda been someone after some cows are anything. any person with common sense is not gonna go on pulbic land and start shooting dogs next to someones truck and trailer. if anything one may catch the dogs and see who's name is on the collars. if the dogs was on his property and after livestock it would be another story. then to point the gun at the owner of the dogs. ol Rodney gave a statement if you read the deal.
 
In this story Luckenbill claims the dogs were attacking his cattle on his property and then tried to attack him:

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/forums/topi ... &tid=30225

One thing that throws up a red flag for me is the list of "facts" given by the original newspaper story. The first one states "Hunting Hounds don't chase cattle". Really. While that may be true most of the time, I find it hard to believe that no hunting dog anywhere has EVER chased cattle. Makes me wonder how reliable the rest of their "facts" are. Not trying to cause a stink, just playing a little devil's advocate here.

In short, I gotta agree with ALX. I'd like to hear the whole story before passing judgement.
 
VanC":1xcefr40 said:
In short, I gotta agree with ALX. I'd like to hear the whole story before passing judgement.

That would make 3.
 
I'm a hugh fan of good hounds. There would be no use in calling the police, if I saw a man standing over my dead dogs with a gun and with him saying, yes I shot them. He'd have hoof prints all over his body,because my horse would accidently make mashed potatoes out of him............ I dont know, what I'd do, but I'm sure it wouldn't be the right thing.
 
Sounds to me like that J G Nutt (the writer) may be associated with PETA or the HSUS. I don't see much credible information in that story.

Of course, everybody has an opinion, but a "news story" should be made up of facts.
 
baxter78":2632kpk7 said:
iowafarmer":2632kpk7 said:
Thats a shame if they don't prosecute thats pretty pathetic casue it sounds liek a fairly strong case against him. He jsut gave cattle producers a bad name also by doing that. I can see why he kind of did it if he has had lots of trouble with packs of abandoned dogs attacking his cattle which is a shame but he should of used some common sense also. If i was the dog owners i would sue him if he isn't prosecuted and probably sue him anyway. Its to bad some people don't think before they do things like that. The county should have maybe taken care of dog problems if there were abandoned ones out there. The public land will probably be closed now to the public casue of this. Had it happen a few years ago but it was an accident. There was a gravel pit owned by the state along a highway were people went fishing and there were some gravle piles there also so people would go shooting there and sight in their rifles. Someone missed the sand pile and the bullet travled through a corn feild a couple hundered yards to a pasture and hit a cow and killed it. The people that owned the cow didn't find it till that fall and even though they didn't want the sand pit cloed to the public it was until they bought it jsut this year from the state of Iowa.

Either they have alot of cattle and do not count them daily or they dont take care of their livestock. I would definitely know if one of mine went missing.

Yeah they have about 400 head of cows that they calve and it was along a river and it was in a spot of the pasture where you can only get to it by horse so they didn't find it till fall when they went through and rounded up everything else and it had slid into kind of a gully/ large dip in the gorund so you couldn't really see it till you got up close. It hadn't been laying out there terrible long either cause they got a bullet out of it and matched it to bullets in the gravel pile.

The article stays #1. Hounds don't chase cattle. My flippen @ss they don't had a coon hound several years ago run away from his owners place 2 1/2 miles away and come to our place and chase cattle in a yard and it ran a 800 pound holstien steer over a gate and it caught its leg inbetween the gate and the pole and pretty much ripped its whole leg off. Didn't know till morning cause it happened at night and the dog was laying in the cattle shed sleeping. Shot it right there called up the guy who owned him he said we had every right to do that and he also said that the dog had run away several times and he payed for damages. Now the whole story stinks to high heaven by both parties are lying the way it reads.

If they are going to take their dogs to public land to run around they should keep them in sight and have them trained better or have them on leashes cause who knows what a dog or group of dogs is doing if you can't see them and they are way more likely to run away.

he souldn't of shot the dogs on public land. he msut have been fairly close to kill them with a shotgun so he can't say they were wild but i can see why he would shoot them if he has been having a lot of trouble with dogs chasing cattle.

They probably won't prosecute cause both sides are at fault.

VanC":2632kpk7 said:
http://www.fishingbuddy.com/forums/topi ... &tid=30225

Ok read some psots off here. People don't understand why you would shoot a dog that chases cattle. Dogs that chase livestock usually won't stop and msut be put down and because it is very expensive to the farmer or rancher. They might kill or seriously injure the livestock from excessive running or chasing them through fences, causeing the livestock to be spooky and hard to work and handle.

My policy for dogs on my property is warning shot in the air wit h#6 shot pheasent load then if they still are here they get on shot from 40 yards or so to scare them away. Then i call the neighbors and find out whose dog it was and when i do i tell them what happened. IF it shows up again its dead. They are dead if they have caused any damage though. Sheriffs usually do nothing about dogs cause they have bigger and better things to do. Driving down the highway and turned the corner when i noticed a pack of about 6 dogs on my property and as i turn the corner up pulls a sheriff so i tell him and they are right across the road at this point. Figured he would take care of it so i drove away and so did he. So much for him doing anything about it.
 
Yes, that article certainly isn't very objective. It isnt the job of the reporter to interject his or her opinions into a news story. Sounds more like editorial to me.
 
The Facts...
1. Hunting Hounds don't chase cattle.
Bull Crap!
2. Rodney Anderson and Kevin Bowan took their valuable sport animals to Liberty Lake for exercise on public property in Logan County Oklahoma on April 22nd, 2008 at approximately 5pm.
Here, there are only certain times during the year allowed by law to run/train your hounds.
3. Rodney Luckenbill shot multiple rounds and killed the animals on public property.
Two sides to every story.
4. The Oklahoma Humane Society (Cynthia Armstrong) has reviewed the case and dictates felony animal cruelty charges should be filed against Luckenbill.
Is Cynthia running for public office somewhere?
5. Rodney Luckenbill admittedly transported a loaded firearm in his personal vehicle in the public domain.
It's legal here.
6. Rodney Luckenbill possessed a loaded firearm during the commission of a felony.
Yet to be proven.
7. Rodney Luckenbill discharged a weapon in the public domain.
In self defence according to him.
8. Rodney Luckenbill pointed a loaded firearm at another person.
Oops!

I think there is more to the story than has been told. I can see where a rancher will shoot dogs on his property regardless of if they are chasing their cows or not.

Were these pit bulls? I suspect Rodney was not attacked by hounds. I suspect old Rodney felt threatened if he pointed the gun at someone. I suspect old Rodney may have had a few Buds before all this happened.
 
I'm sure there are definitely 3 sides to this story and the reporter did a very poor job reporting but a fantastic job of judging. I think any dog will chase cattle when they are packed up and feeling spunky. Heck, I saw a poodle do it once.

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the tan dog lying dead in the picture sure looks like a pit bull with cropped ears while the other picture they show of the "same" dog looks more retrieverish and doesn't have cropped ears. Also wonder why the fella has so much blood on his legs. Only time I get that much on me is when I got to drag a carcus a long distance. Makes me wonder is someone isn't painting a different picture here.
 
Even the title of the piece, "Dogs Slaughtered..." is inflamatory and not journalistic at all. You have to get the feeling that the article was slanted from the beginning.

And I had a couple of weiner dogs that tried their hand at cattle herding. Very funny to watch, but not life threatening - for the cattle at any rate.
 
i found this at another place.



MEDIA RELEASE





District Attorney, Rob Hudson, announced today that no charges for animal cruelty will be filed against Rodney Luckinbill relating to Luckinbill's shooting of 5 dogs on April 22, 2008. Hudson said "the State of Oklahoma would be unable to meet the burden of proof required by law to obtain a conviction". Hudson stated that after carefully reviewing the facts contained in the police reports, personally visiting the scene, researching the laws relating to animal cruelty, farmers/ranchers right to protect their livestock and cases relating to assertions of self defense, it is my opinion that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Luckinbill was guilty of animal abuse. Moreover, a jury would be instructed by the Judge on the affirmative defense of "self defense".



The following is both an explanation of my analysis as well as a position statement pertaining to this very emotionally charged incident:



We have in the past, and will continue to in the future, file cases of animal cruelty against defendants in cases where we can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt;


Here are some facts which came to light in the investigation and of which the public may be unaware. These significantly affect the prosecutability of a criminal case:


A). The Officer at the scene said he observed approximately 10 to15 dogs (the media has only heard of and reported about 5 which were killed);



B). Approximately 3 or 4 of those dogs were Pitt Bulls, or a mix thereof, which gives credibility to Luckinbill's call to police, before he shot any dog, that his cattle were being chased by a pack of Pitt Bulls;



C). The dogs were released from a trailer by the dog owners less than 100 feet from Luckinbill's barbed wire fence line where his cattle graze;



D). One of the dog owners was armed with a pistol which was on his waist;



E). A veterinarian who inspected the cattle after the incident would testify that the injuries and wounds to Luckinbill's cattle were consistent with an attack by a group (pack) of dogs. He would further state that some of the wounds were likely bite marks and some were likely received from being chased through trees and a wooded area;



F). Luckinbill would present evidence and testify that 8 calves had been previously killed by dog attacks.



G). The dog owners admit they have taken their dogs to this area "quite often".





The Oklahoma Law (Title 4 Section 41) provides that it is lawful to kill dogs that chase livestock, therefore Luckinbill would have that statutory defense relating to the first 2 dogs he shot. There were no eyewitnesses to controvert his statement that he observed the dogs chasing his cattle. In actuality, his statement is corroborated by the 911 call when he requested the police to come out before he had shot any dog;




Luckinbill claims that when he got out of his truck where the other 3 dogs were shot, that they "approached him in an aggressive manner." "Luckinbill stated he believed his life was in danger and shot all three dogs with a 12 gauge shotgun." This claim is uncontroverted since no one else witnessed this. Luckinbill's assertion gives rise to the legal defense of Self-Defense which would justify him defending himself by killing those dogs. Further facts which corroborate Luckinbill's claim of self-defense:


- there is physical evidence (veterinary exam and report) that the cattle had indeed been attacked which would arguably justify his fear of the dogs coming at him;

- it is common knowledge that dogs which hunt or run in a group or pack are very dangerous;

- these 3 dogs were killed within 2, 5 and 6 feet, respectively, from the door of Luckinbill's truck evidencing the dogs came up to Luckinbill at his truck.



I realize Luckinbill's statements are self-serving, but they are no less or more self serving than the owners of the dogs who state that their dogs were not chasing Luckinbill's cattle. Remember that the owners of the dogs admit their dogs had veered off for approximately 15 minutes and they had lost visual contact with them.



I am not opposed to hunting. I am a hunter. Also, I am not opposed to hunting raccoons and hogs/pigs. It is lawful to do so subject to certain rules and restrictions. However, Oklahoma Law also provides that a person whose occupation and livelihood are derived from being an animal husbandriman which includes raising, caring for, nurturing and protecting his livestock , is authorized to kill a dog or dogs that chases or injures or kills his livestock. When these 2 issues collide (raising livestock versus hunting with a group or pack of dogs), the law sides with the livestock owner.




I grew up on a farm and I know both farmers and hunters alike. If this incident, i.e. the chasing of cattle by a pack of dogs, happened to any farmer I know, that farmer would have done the same thing. We cannot prosecute every farmer that kills a dog(s) that chases his cattle. On the other hand, I'm not insensitive to dogs or dog owners (I am a multiple dog owner myself) and I realize that Luckinbill was obviously upset, mad and possibly enraged, but it appears to me that many people who are upset with Luckinbill for killing 5 dogs who chased his cattle are on the wrong side of the issue. Luckinbill was protecting his defenseless cattle from dogs that kill other innocent animals. I have never hunted pigs, but encourage you to ask someone who has. Ask them what roles the Blue Tic's and the Pit Bulls play in tracking down their prey.




Lest it be concluded that I'm condoning Luckinbill's actions, I realize it is possible his actions went too far. Nevertheless, his actions did not go so far as being "criminal" under the facts and circumstances I have carefully reviewed. If his actions were excessive (the shooting of the 3 dogs which he claims came at him in an aggressive manner), such can be litigated by the parties through civil court for monetary damages. The burden of proof in a civil case is "by a preponderance of the evidence", which means "more likely than not" as opposed to the criminal law's burden of proving a person guilty of each and every element of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt.




As to the allegations that Luckinbill pointed his gun at Mr. Bowen, it is troublesome that Mr. Bowen did not mention this to the officer at the scene. That allegation was made by Mr. Bowen in a later interview. Clearly, the evidence is that Luckinbill had a shotgun, but Mr. Bowen also had a handgun. The one thing that can be concluded as true and accurate is that this was very intense meeting between Mr. Bowen, who had just lost five dogs which he loved and cherished, and Luckinbill, who was also upset about his cattle. Again, when taking all the facts and circumstances into account, there is insufficient proof to meet the State's Burden of Proof that Luckinbill feloniously pointed a gun at Mr. Bowen.




As to having guns in the City Limits, both Luckinbill and Bowen may be in violation of the law, but those are violations of municipal ordinances, for which the jurisdiction lies with the Municipal Court.




[COMMENT] The criminal statute relating to animal cruelty is a difficult one to use in many fact scenarios because it contains no "misdemeanor" provision. Animal cruelty is always a felony as the law is now written in Oklahoma. This is odd when compared to the domestic abuse statute which provides that if a person beats his/her significant other, such is a misdemeanor for the first offense. This doesn't seem fundamentally right in that an animal is afforded more protection than a human being? Is that the way it should be? I advocate a change in the law for a misdemeanor provision for the first offense with a felony option for the more severe cases which involve torture or inhumane treatment. If this were done, it is likely that more animal cruelty cases would be filed. DA's, as they should be, are reluctant to file any charge which they don't believe have sufficient facts to sustain the high and heavy burden of "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt", especially felonies. (This comment does not pertain to the fact scenario in this case for the reasons explained hereinbelow, but does warrant inclusion since the topic of enforcing laws relating to animal abuse will clearly be a hot topic as this case is discussed among citizens) ;


The bottom line is that there is insufficient evidence to prevail in the prosecution of this case and I believe to prosecute a case that cannot be won becomes an act of persecution. I encourage everyone to remember that the Constitution requires a prosecutor to prove a defendant committed a crime BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. A person accused of a crime is presumed innocent, not the other way around.


I ask you to consider that I was elected as your District Attorney to make decisions based upon the law, to protect the citizens from criminals, to exercise sound discretion in the use of the power to charge a person with a crime. These decisions MUST be made from analyzing a case from a legal standpoint instead of from an emotional standpoint.
 
Thanks for the update, dewey. Sounds like the matter was handled pretty well by the DA. Considering both men had guns and were very upset, it's a wonder this thing didn't escalate into something much worse.

It is shameful, however, that animal cruelty is a felony while domestic battery is only a misdemeanor. Somethings wrong there.
 
I think this case gives a prime example why we as cattlemen/farmers need to stick together. It is so easy to jump on the side of what the press prints but we got to keep in mind that most of the members of the press are not on our side. Most of the garbage they print about agriculture is misleading to say the least. I believe we should all stand by each other's sides and always give the benefit of the doubt to the producer first until it is beyond a shadow of a doubt he is in the wrong. If we can't do this, I'm afraid the future of agriculture is not going to be very bright for our children. JMHO
 
One "youtube" video of a calf being killed by a pack of dogs would end this. Problem is, ranchers couldn't stomach watching a pack of dogs kill a calf while they filmed it.

Walt
 
Txwalt":7gve47sj said:
One "youtube" video of a calf being killed by a pack of dogs would end this. Problem is, ranchers couldn't stomach watching a pack of dogs kill a calf while they filmed it.

Walt

That's so true. Ever wonder about those people who sit there with their camera filming someone drowning? Can't say what I would do in that situation but I'm pretty darn sure I wouldn't be working the dang focus on the camera - I'd probably be wet.

Did you also catch the point of law about the felony cruelty to animals in comparison to the varying degrees of spousal abuse. For animals they said any act of violance was a felony. But you could beat your spouse in three varying degrees. Makes you wonder.
 
Jogeephus":3hwfjrj5 said:
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the tan dog lying dead in the picture sure looks like a pit bull with cropped ears while the other picture they show of the "same" dog looks more retrieverish and doesn't have cropped ears. Also wonder why the fella has so much blood on his legs. Only time I get that much on me is when I got to drag a carcus a long distance. Makes me wonder is someone isn't painting a different picture here.

Yeah, the light colored dog is definitely a pit or pit mix. If the pit started something I'm sure those hounds would have joined in. I remember the first days of hunting season after our dogs had been penned all year. They were nuts!
 

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