Any correlation????

[Bigfoot]

I've had 16 calves so far this year. I've had to pull 2 already. (Same bulls from last year). Every now and again, I will go a year without pulling one. Just going from memory, I'd say 2 per year is tops for me. I've been limit feeding hay, almost all year. Might have been 6 weeks total of free choice. I limit fed so bad in the fall, I'm actually a little ashamed of my self. I normally feed a little ddg in the spring, but I started back in January this year. Cows have actually shocked me how they are holding up. Maybe better than in all years past. Could the early start to feed ddg be making my calves that much bigger? Is it the other way around too weak to push from not enough energy (calories)? Maybe too silly questions, could be pure happenstance, but something is going on.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've had 16 calves so far this year. I've had to pull 2 already. (Same bulls from last year). Every now and again, I will go a year without pulling one. Just going from memory, I'd say 2 per year is tops for me. I've been limit feeding hay, almost all year. Might have been 6 weeks total of free choice. I limit fed so bad in the fall, I'm actually a little ashamed of my self. I normally feed a little ddg in the spring, but I started back in January this year. Cows have actually shocked me how they are holding up. Maybe better than in all years past. Could the early start to feed ddg be making my calves that much bigger? Is it the other way around too weak to push from not enough energy (calories)? Maybe too silly questions, could be pure happenstance, but something is going on.

I haven't pulled one of mine in years,
might pull the rest this year.
Pulled calves all the time on my running buddies S/H.
This is my Opinion take that and a buck and half will get you a cup of coffee.

After rigorous selection through the years I think feed has very little to do with the fetus size.
I have had anomalies through the years of certain matings producing larger calves between X bull and Y cow. Again IMO I am anal on CE and BW. if I pull a calf she grows wheels for a better cow.

 

[pdfangus]

protein levels in the ration certainly have an effect on calf size.

 

[Bigfoot]

protein levels in the ration certainly have an effect on calf size.

I kinda thought that, but I wonder did I feed enough/long enough to reach that plane? I would almost be more inclined to think in the other direction, that my cows don't have enough calories to push. Sounds odd to many, but diet and what a horse can do are very related.

 

[pdfangus]

Corn distillers grain is generally rich in protein. High protein DDG contains more than 40% DM of protein. In regular DDGS, some types are richer (30-35% DM) than others (25-30% DM). The production of DDGS includes a drying step that may damage amino acids, notably lysine.
Corn distillers grain | Feedipedia
https://www.feedipedia.org/node/71

looked up the above....
from there it depends upon how much you were giving them per head per day.
and the nutrient content and amount of hay needs to be factored in as well.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Sounds like some of your cows are fat?

My poor hay test call for about 1.1 lb DDG mix/day in second trimester. This about doubles in third trimester. It doesn't take much, but I usually free choice hay.

Bunk space is often an issue with supplement. You need like 125% to give everyone a reasonable chance.

 

[Bigfoot]

Sounds like some of your cows are fat?

My poor hay test call for about 1.1 lb DDG mix/day in second trimester. This about doubles in third trimester. It doesn't take much, but I usually free choice hay.

Bunk space is often an issue with supplement. You need like 125% to give everyone a reasonable chance.

I had considered wet. Same price for the nutrition you get (if that makes sense). My fear with the dry is this———-I'm feeding 6-7 pounds. One cow might get 10, and another 2.
The wet seems to iliminate that, because of the volume your putting out.

 

[JMER1533]

What I've heard from a land grant university is the amount of food a cow eats during pregnancy has very little effect on the weight of the calf. Something like up to a pound and a half difference.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I think the condition of the cow and calving ease are the most important factors. Cows that are buggy horse fat will cause lots of problems.

From the sidelines, and only having the knowledge that you gave us, I would say it's just happenstance. But I don't know that for sure. I'm like CB, I haven't pulled one out of the last 200, heifers included. Year before that I pulled 3 almost back to back, 2 of which were backwards and 1 that had a leg back. I haven't pulled one that was presented correctly in a very long time.

Not insulting your intelligence at all, but is there any chance you are jumping the gun and pulling before she's had time? Not saying that is the case, just asking. I used to be the worlds worst about thinking that if he didn't come right out that I needed to help. Were they hard pulls or hand pulls?

 

[Caustic Burno]

What I've heard from a land grant university is the amount of food a cow eats during pregnancy has very little effect on the weight of the calf. Something like up to a pound and a half difference.

Wish I had saved the data from a TAMU workshop. There was more impact between crossing certain breeds.
Hybrid vigor starts at conception.

 

[pdfangus]

Protein much above the level needed by the cow is most certainly applied to the developing calf especially in the last trimester

 

[Bigfoot]

I think the condition of the cow and calving ease are the most important factors. Cows that are buggy horse fat will cause lots of problems.

From the sidelines, and only having the knowledge that you gave us, I would say it's just happenstance. But I don't know that for sure. I'm like CB, I haven't pulled one out of the last 200, heifers included. Year before that I pulled 3 almost back to back, 2 of which were backwards and 1 that had a leg back. I haven't pulled one that was presented correctly in a very long time.

Not insulting your intelligence at all, but is there any chance you are jumping the gun and pulling before she's had time? Not saying that is the case, just asking. I used to be the worlds worst about thinking that if he didn't come right out that I needed to help. Were they hard pulls or hand pulls?

That's not insulting. Both had swelled tongues by the time I pulled. Almost waited to long.

 

[Bigfoot]

Protein much above the level needed by the cow is most certainly applied to the developing calf especially in the last trimester

That's exactly when I started feeding to.

 

[Bigfoot]

What I've heard from a land grant university is the amount of food a cow eats during pregnancy has very little effect on the weight of the calf. Something like up to a pound and a half difference.

Wish I had saved the data from a TAMU workshop. There was more impact between crossing certain breeds.
Hybrid vigor starts at conception.

These calves would be the trifecta. Brahma, continental, British. But..... same bulls, and cows from previous year.

 

[Caustic Burno]

What I've heard from a land grant university is the amount of food a cow eats during pregnancy has very little effect on the weight of the calf. Something like up to a pound and a half difference.

Wish I had saved the data from a TAMU workshop. There was more impact between crossing certain breeds.
Hybrid vigor starts at conception.

These calves would be the trifecta. Brahma, continental, British. But..... same bulls, and cows from previous year.

You don't get the same DNA every time you reach in the bucket. If you did you would have clones. The calf is not getting the same 30 chromosomes from the dam and sire every breeding.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

My AI Tech says most calving ease problems start with over feeding in the 3rd trimester.

 

[Coosh71]

Protein much above the level needed by the cow is most certainly applied to the developing calf especially in the last trimester

We have neighbors and 2 vets that graze all bred cows and heifers on wheat pasture and don't have anymore calving issues than their fall calving cows who calve on grass vs wheat. Their opinions are the same. Cows aren't overly fat, but are at peak performance if you will, when they calve. The vets cull heifers hard on pelvic measurements, and vets say their avg bw is only 5# different than cows calving in fall on grass. Like others will say, I'm no expert, but I see their results and know they are accurate.

 

[pdfangus]

Protein much above the level needed by the cow is most certainly applied to the developing calf especially in the last trimester

We have neighbors and 2 vets that graze all bred cows and heifers on wheat pasture and don't have anymore calving issues than their fall calving cows who calve on grass vs wheat. Their opinions are the same. Cows aren't overly fat, but are at peak performance if you will, when they calve. The vets cull heifers hard on pelvic measurements, and vets say their avg bw is only 5# different than cows calving in fall on grass. Like others will say, I'm no expert, but I see their results and know they are accurate.

pardon me but I do not understand if you are disputing my statement

or

supporting my statement with the five lb average difference in birth weights...

we fall calve and I once graphed my birth weights for several years and the october calves were significantly heavier than the september calves.... I cannot recall the average difference but it was in the range of 5 to 10 lbs

we typically have hot dry summers where the cool season grasses are dormant and they begin to come back with the first hurricane rains of the fall. grass is growing full tilt in late September into October....

 

[Coosh71]

Protein much above the level needed by the cow is most certainly applied to the developing calf especially in the last trimester

We have neighbors and 2 vets that graze all bred cows and heifers on wheat pasture and don't have anymore calving issues than their fall calving cows who calve on grass vs wheat. Their opinions are the same. Cows aren't overly fat, but are at peak performance if you will, when they calve. The vets cull heifers hard on pelvic measurements, and vets say their avg bw is only 5# different than cows calving in fall on grass. Like others will say, I'm no expert, but I see their results and know they are accurate.

pardon me but I do not understand if you are disputing my statement

or

supporting my statement with the five lb average difference in birth weights...

we fall calve and I once graphed my birth weights for several years and the october calves were significantly heavier than the september calves.... I cannot recall the average difference but it was in the range of 5 to 10 lbs

we typically have hot dry summers where the cool season grasses are dormant and they begin to come back with the first hurricane rains of the fall. grass is growing full tilt in late September into October....

PDF, I'm not trying to disagree at all. More adding some experiences/results I have seen first hand of feeding high protein wheat to P3 cows and also to P3 cows on mixed grass pastures in Sept/Oct. As I stated, I do believe a part of calving issues have to do with pelvic sizes. Also, fat or skinny cattle are at a disadvantage. The vets I talk too start off with heifers with larger pelvic measurements so as adult cows they can handle more possible calf weight at birth.

 

[Son of Butch]

My AI Tech says most calving ease problems start with over feeding in the 3rd trimester.

:nod:
Yup... and
It's been discussed before about colder than average temperatures increasing birth weights.
So I'm expecting calves will be larger than average around here this spring.