Another ? re: Seller responsibility . . . Bred Cow/No Calf

[Kathie in Thorp]

So, I have a question that may have been answered on this site before I arrived:

What if you're sold a bred (and registered) cow, that doesn't calve? In my situation, I bought from a known breeder, but new to me, from another state. Bred cow with a steer calf at side. All our emails, phone conversations, etc., said BRED COW -- but I missed that the seller didn't put "bred" on the bill of sale for the cow until lately. Per the info they gave me, she was exposed after calving in March from April through July 2010. During that time, seller was going through chemo and other ugly stuff.

In talking to the wife a few weeks ago, she's not sure that he got the breeding dates right in any clear time frame -- that the cow may have been w/ the bull right up until my purchase in late Sept. 2010. Wife has offered to come pick up the cow (6 hr. drive) and pay my $$ back for her if the cow doesn't calve by end June. They can't replace her-- they've retired from cattle because of hubby's health problems, and they don't have anything to replace her with. But, heck, I can't replace her now for what I paid for her a year ago! And I can't get that breed (American British White Park) easily in my part of the country. I'd like to give that cow another chance, but I've missed out on a calf this year. Advice/suggestions, for when I talk to her again -- end June ?

And, no, I didn't preg check her, after 3 mos. with the bull. And no, she has no udder development or other tell-tale signs. She's big, but I think she's just over-conditioned right now with our big spring grass. Thanks, all!

Kathie

 

[Isomade]

First have the cow pregged. The last thing you want to do is have her come pick up a bred cow because you think by looking that she ain't bred. Second, she could have been bred and lost the calf. Is she returning your money and you keep the calf?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

It's now June 11 -- we expected a calf (from their representations) in March. So, I can't really see the point today, in having her preg-checked to see if she'll calve by end-June, which could be the very, last, possible time-frame for her to calve. I told her I'd wait the cow out until end June.

I don't think the cow aborted. We have only a few head; we keep a very close eye on them. There has been no indication -- no bleeding, no discharge, no anxiety, nothing of that sort. The calf at side, when we purchased the cow, is now a year old, so he's out of the equation.

Her offer, to protect their good name (and they have a good name -- no issue with that -- they've just had some rough times), was to drive all those miles, re-pay what I paid for the BRED COW (not calf at side); but I really don't want that cow to go away-- she's a nice cow and a young cow. I think the record-keeping was bad, under the bad circumstances dumped on the seller. I agreed to wait out the cow until end June . . . . but then what?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Oh, reminder, from first post, "after three mos. with the bull," that was the info I got at time of purchase -- April to July. And then, later, that maybe hubby hadn't kept good records, and maybe she wasn't actually bred until later, near time of purchase in the Fall (hence, a late June, maybe, baby). K

 

[Isomade]

Kathie,

It sounds like they are good people. If there is no chance she is bred then you don't want her in your herd. All that is left to decide is what you feel is right to do in the situation. Like you said they are going thru a tough time and are still doing everything they can to make it right. Second chances create sub par operations. The cow needs to go either way. I know that is not what you want to hear but it is just my opinion. Was the calf her first?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Expected calf is her second. We have a nice yearling+ steer that came w/ her at purchase. He had to be pulled. My big, major ??, since the seller was having all those issues, and wasn't sure exactly when that cow was bred . . . is, was she really bred at all? Maybe not ?? I'll hang out until end June. Then ??? That lady doesn't need the exasperation to drive/haul back a cow across state lines and the crap that goes w/ that! As a white cow (and at auction, nobody cares if she's reg'd), she won't bring alot of money. I was just hoping from some sort of quid pro quo with no expected calf -- and give the cow another shot.

But you are telling me exactly what my bro-in-law, running 200 head says: If they don't produce, they go.

 

[Dixieangus]

Heres an idea- IF no calf then figure out what you have in feed and expenses in that cow, and ask the seller for that (maybe even a little more) since you dont want the cow to go but dont want to lose money

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What's fair on each side. Seller has absolutely had hard-ships, BUT I was sold a "bred cow" . . . Let them pick up the cow and refund her purchase price (don't really want to do that) ?? refund some amount towards a calf ??, or ?? But I'll wait her out till end June and I'll let y'all know if that cow does anything . . . . Thank you! Kathie

 

[Suzie Q]

Do you mean she still had the calf on her? Some breeds do not go into heat until the calf is weaned. By your posts it doesn't sound like the calf has been weaned yet. JMHO.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I bought the cow/calf pair early last Fall, 2010. The steer calf was a March 2010 calf (he's over a y ear old now), and the cow was represented to be re-bred, exposed April - July 2010. . . . . . Or maybe not until later, via the history previously provided.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Our cows/calves were separated shortly after we brought this cow home. Per seller, she would have been WELL bred between March-Sept. or so, even going on the longest guess.

 

[Suzie Q]

That is what I mean. If a cow has a calf in March 2010 and is exposed to a bull in April - July 2010 and is still feeding a calf, then she will not come into heat and will not mate with the bull. Some breeds do. Some breeds don't. Most people do not wean until 6 months of age. Again JMHO.

Without a test to see if she is pregnant, even if the bull has mounted her does not mean 100% that she is pregnant.

 

[Gators Rule]

who is to say the bull in the equation was a poor breeder? Here's what I would do. If possible, I would advise I wanted to keep the cow IF I could get her bred with the bull of your choice. If I could rebreed her, then I would ask that they refund the difference between a bred cow and an open cow. There is an element of "buyer beware" involved here, but since you seem to want to keep the cow, meeting somewhere in the middle seems like the logical solution. It would also be a nice gesture to show someone going thru a very difficult moment in their life.

 

[hillsdown]

Do you mean she still had the calf on her? Some breeds do not go into heat until the calf is weaned. By your posts it doesn't sound like the calf has been weaned yet. JMHO.

WTH ??? :lol:

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

S'cuse me.

Beef breeders: If I buy a cow, of a breed that should be productive, that calved in March and was then exposed to the bull from April to July . . . . . or maybe even 'till September, even with a calf at side that was weaned in Sept. or Oct. of last year, is someone telling me I should still be waiting for that cow to come into estrus?? WTH?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Gators Rule -- Got your input. Problem is, ain't none of those bulls around here! Sellers have sold their herd. I have a couple of bulls, imported from WY, in my nitrogen tank. Still puts me a year behind.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Gators Rule: This may be a second post that just didn't come up quick enough for me. Anyway, seller no longer has bulls. They're out -- retired -- done. I have bulls, very nice bulls, safely tucked away in a nitrogen tank, imported from WY to WA. We don't have facilities to keep/maintain a bull on the hoof. So, I can re-breed her, with the bull of my choice. But, compare the market difference with bred cow now vs. open cow now -- and a calf on the ground from a cow we've fed since last Fall. ??

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

GR -- Correction: Bred cow THEN 2010 v. open cow now 2011. ?

 

[Hippie Rancher]

get her preg checked

pulled calf last year may be the problem, but why talk deals with no info? get her checked

 

[hillsdown]

S'cuse me.

Beef breeders: If I buy a cow, of a breed that should be productive, that calved in March and was then exposed to the bull from April to July . . . . . or maybe even 'till September, even with a calf at side that was weaned in Sept. or Oct. of last year, is someone telling me I should still be waiting for that cow to come into estrus?? WTH?

Kathie, I would get the cow checked by a vet and see just what is going on before you panic about what ifs.