Another fly control thread

[faster horses]

IGR may not hurt dung Beatles but it stopped all earth worm activity in my manure pies. Without worms and fly larve the birds had no reason to touch the manure and break it down. I honestly had 2 year old manure patties that you could pickup like potatoes chips. I was having to drag pastures to break up the manure as it would actually choke out the grass underneath.

Quit using mineral with IGR and once again a manure pie doesn't last more than a few weeks before the bugs and birds have it broke down. No need for any labor to deal with manure on pastures.

As for gaining WW when using an IGR, I have noticed zero difference in rate of gain when using fly tags, a pour on, and occasional spraying vs the IGR.

Any fly contol that keeps cattle grazing will add weight to every class of cattle. When cattle are bunched up, they aren't gaining weight. In the big arid pastures in the west, there isn't a lot of earth worm activity (or not enough to be noticeable). Fly control in mineral is the least labor-intensive way to control flies in big pastures. Even if they could be gathered and moved, which is stressful, there might not be any working facilities for quite a ways away.

If the neighbors don't use fly control, in 2 weeks (which is the life cycle of the fly) you will observe less flies on your cattle when using IGR and maybe Rabon. Plus horn flies don't fly very far.

Rabon is a chemical whereas IGR is a product occurring naturally in livestock.

1. Rabon®: An oral feed through larvicide that kills fly larvae of all four fly species – horn flies, face flies, house flies, and stable flies. Rabon does not cause any insect resistance issues after prolonged feeding and remains active for up to six weeks. Rabon is EPA approved for beef cattle, lactating dairy cows, horses and swine. Rabon has no environmental issues and does not harm soil, water, plants, or beneficial insects such as dung beetles.
2. Altosid® IGR: an Insect Growth Regulator (IGR) that passes through the animal and into the manure, where horn flies lay their eggs. It breaks the horn fly life cycle by preventing pupae from developing into biting adult flies. The active ingredient in Altosid IGR is (S)-Methoprene, a copy of the horn fly's own biochemicals. (S)-Methoprene even controls horn flies resistant to the organophosphates and pyrethroids commonly used in conventional horn fly control products. In more than 25 years of use, there have been no known cases of flies being resistant to (S)-Methoprene. Altosid IGR is a convenient way to control horn flies in beef and dairy cattle.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

How wide are each "curtain"? (Couldn't seem to find dimensions on website)

Approx 4 ft.
That is a 10-ft opening that they hang in.
At first the cows didn't want to walk through them.
kind of funny looking like they were trying to limbo but eventually they now they just hang out underneath them not sure why I guess they just like them touching them.

 

[RDFF]

View attachment 27487

I assume it's basically the same thing as a "rope wick" for putting herbicide on plants...

 

[RDFF]

Fly tags in both ears and spray them when they are close to the house and I'm around.

Used to feed mineral with IGR but then my manure pies would last on the ground forever. No worms, grubs, or bugs would touch them.

Wreaking havoc on your in ground biology too.... just the opposite of what you want. Gabe Brown did it with some cattle that came in after being on IGR... Said it took 6 months to get any dung beetles back.

Greg Judy puts tree swallow nest boxes all over his pastures. He's farther south in their territory, where I'm at in Minnesota, we don't get those. However, I've researched, and now am considering putting Barn Swallow nesting shelters out all around the pasture... but haven't implemented that as yet. Each nesting pair of swallows (tree or barn swallows) while raising a brood will catch and eat about 7000 flies a day... they catch them "on the wing", so kind of fun to watch them diving around all over the pasture, particularly wherever the cattle are. They also catch mosquitoes. We used to have them nesting just about solid end to end under the eaves of our old wooden barn by the cow yard... now, since the old barn is long gone, and we've all gone to steel buildings with no open wooden eaves to build nests under, and because everybody is "prophylactically using fly control" on the cattle, and insecticide across all of our farm fields, barn swallow populations across North America have dropped by about 75% in the last half century. Using these "easy solutions" has consequences!

Barn swallows only need a nest habitat area similar to what it was like under the eaves of the old wood barn... sheltered from rain and sun, and preferably built using rough sawn wood. Tin gets too hot, and it's smooth so more difficult for them to prefer to build their nest on it out of mud. They don't need much though... they'll build right on a vertical board, but better is if you've got a very short ledge (1" sticking out from the vertical surface would do it), or in a vertical corner. They'll put their nest a couple of inches down from the "roof"... just enough so they can sit on the edge of the nest under there. They prefer to not have another nest WITHIN SIGHT IF THAT NEST IS CLOSER THAN ABOUT 6-8"............. but if you have a "divider", like a vertical board between nests, they'll put them right up against each other back to back, with just that piece of board between (blocks the view from the neighbor, like the privacy wall between condos!)... so if you have something like a vertical 1x6 for example between them, they'll put nests literally back to back. Under the eaves, they'd have a 2x4 rafter between, that's it, and there was a nest in every one of those corners between the rafters. They build close together like this because they're "colonial nesters". In contrast, Tree Swallows are "solitary nesters"... same as Bluebirds... they don't want another nest within about 300', and they will protect that territory and drive out any new pairs that might want to build there! So you can have a whole lot more barn swallows in a given area than you can tree swallows. You also don't need to clean out the "nest boxes" (nesting sites... no boxes required) like you do with a tree swallow box. Barn Swallows PREFER that their nest be a minimum of about 6' off the ground, mostly to feel safe from predators. Because they build their nest with mud, having some source of water nearby, like a creek, is a help as well. They'll go quite a way though to get that, and will have a daily flying range of up to a mile or more.... but the closer they are to their "food source" (flies) the better.

BTW, a tree swallow box is exactly the same dimensions and hole size (which IS important to limit the size of bird that can gain access) as a Bluebird box... and their nesting habits are the same too...interchangeable. Another issue with them, other birds like to invade and use their nests (thus the "size of hole" being important).

 

[kdhansen]

Approx 4 ft.
That is a 10-ft opening that they hang in.
At first the cows didn't want to walk through them.
kind of funny looking like they were trying to limbo but eventually they now they just hang out underneath them not sure why I guess they just like them touching them.

Thank you.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Trouble with barn swallows is they nest under the leans-tos on the shop and then crap on everything. Gets so concentrated and bad that it will eat the paint off equipment.

I spend a few minutes everyday knocking down the swallow nests under the shop and in the building where my working facilities are.

I have kept my weaning weights the same by using other means than IGR, and don't have to worry about killing my soil biology.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I wrapped my posts in the
Pole barn with carpet ,the barn cats love me and keep the swallow nests out!!

 

[SBMF 2015]

Wreaking havoc on your in ground biology too.... just the opposite of what you want. Gabe Brown did it with some cattle that came in after being on IGR... Said it took 6 months to get any dung beetles back.

Greg Judy puts tree swallow nest boxes all over his pastures. He's farther south in their territory, where I'm at in Minnesota, we don't get those. However, I've researched, and now am considering putting Barn Swallow nesting shelters out all around the pasture... but haven't implemented that as yet. Each nesting pair of swallows (tree or barn swallows) while raising a brood will catch and eat about 7000 flies a day... they catch them "on the wing", so kind of fun to watch them diving around all over the pasture, particularly wherever the cattle are. They also catch mosquitoes. We used to have them nesting just about solid end to end under the eaves of our old wooden barn by the cow yard... now, since the old barn is long gone, and we've all gone to steel buildings with no open wooden eaves to build nests under, and because everybody is "prophylactically using fly control" on the cattle, and insecticide across all of our farm fields, barn swallow populations across North America have dropped by about 75% in the last half century. Using these "easy solutions" has consequences!

Barn swallows only need a nest habitat area similar to what it was like under the eaves of the old wood barn... sheltered from rain and sun, and preferably built using rough sawn wood. Tin gets too hot, and it's smooth so more difficult for them to prefer to build their nest on it out of mud. They don't need much though... they'll build right on a vertical board, but better is if you've got a very short ledge (1" sticking out from the vertical surface would do it), or in a vertical corner. They'll put their nest a couple of inches down from the "roof"... just enough so they can sit on the edge of the nest under there. They prefer to not have another nest WITHIN SIGHT IF THAT NEST IS CLOSER THAN ABOUT 6-8"............. but if you have a "divider", like a vertical board between nests, they'll put them right up against each other back to back, with just that piece of board between (blocks the view from the neighbor, like the privacy wall between condos!)... so if you have something like a vertical 1x6 for example between them, they'll put nests literally back to back. Under the eaves, they'd have a 2x4 rafter between, that's it, and there was a nest in every one of those corners between the rafters. They build close together like this because they're "colonial nesters". In contrast, Tree Swallows are "solitary nesters"... same as Bluebirds... they don't want another nest within about 300', and they will protect that territory and drive out any new pairs that might want to build there! So you can have a whole lot more barn swallows in a given area than you can tree swallows. You also don't need to clean out the "nest boxes" (nesting sites... no boxes required) like you do with a tree swallow box. Barn Swallows PREFER that their nest be a minimum of about 6' off the ground, mostly to feel safe from predators. Because they build their nest with mud, having some source of water nearby, like a creek, is a help as well. They'll go quite a way though to get that, and will have a daily flying range of up to a mile or more.... but the closer they are to their "food source" (flies) the better.

BTW, a tree swallow box is exactly the same dimensions and hole size (which IS important to limit the size of bird that can gain access) as a Bluebird box... and their nesting habits are the same too...interchangeable. Another issue with them, other birds like to invade and use their nests (thus the "size of hole" being important).

Don't have a picture, but one of our pastures has a creek that goes under the highway. The cows stand in the creek right at the edge of the bridge when it gets hot. It's an all concrete bridge and I bet there are 50+ pairs of barn swallows nesting there. It's pretty cool.

 

[JJColvin]

Fly tags in both ears and spray them when they are close to the house and I'm around.

Used to feed mineral with IGR but then my manure pies would last on the ground forever. No worms, grubs, or bugs would touch them.

I came to believe a few years ago that IGR is just another name for steroids for flies.

 

[Warren Allison]

So I joined last year with to gather insight on how to help me get the most out of my small herd.

2 things I'm still trying to get figured out is keeping a healthy summer and winter pasture. I know little about grasses other than fertilizing water and sun

My other big issue is fly control. I did try the minerals with igr last year with very minimal difference. So I hung up a back rubber which I do think helped but they tore it apart fairly quick and the stuffing was everywhere. I'm almost certain my neighbor has zero fly control on his herd so I've read that the igr will not help in those instances. Does anyone have any homemade rubbers that don't come apart so easily. I understand a cow is a large animal and nothing is going to last forever but maybe y'all have some tricks that I'm not thinking of.

The fly bags you get at tractor supply work very well but you gotta have a stomach of steel to get around them after a week or 2 in the summer. They get RANK!!

What kind of cows> How many? How much acreage? If you have a choke point to hang it, the Cattle Curtain that @Mountaintown Creek Ranch shared would be the best bet. You could add ear tags, Rabon if you feed them, and hang gourds on tall poles. For my horses, I keep fly strips in the stables, and LOVE it when swallows nest there. I have gourds for martins hung on poles, and keep free-range chickens around the barn. I give the horses just a handful of feed everyday, with a little corn in it. The chickens keep the manure spread out, scratching for the corn and they eat the maggots. I only have to use fly spray when I take them somewhere.

 

[RDFF]

I came to believe a few years ago that IGR is just another name for steroids for flies.

That's what an old guy back home used to say about fogging the barn with spray too... "Just peps 'em up"!

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Diatomaceous earth (DE) sprinkled in any bedding area or manure pile will help kill larvae as they try to hatch.
I actually feed it to our cattle so it comes out in their poop but that appears to be a controversial subject. LOL

 

[RDFF]

Diatomaceous earth (DE) sprinkled in any bedding area or manure pile will help kill larvae as they try to hatch.
I actually feed it to our cattle so it comes out in their poop but that appears to be a controversial subject. LOL

From this article, "Diatomaceous earth is marketed for fly control. However, little or no fly control will be achieved by using diatomaceous earth as a feed additive, aerosol, dust bag, hand dust, or other application measure. Until scientific data suggests otherwise, it is not a recommended practice to use diatomaceous earth for fly control." Ok State Beef Cattle Ectoparasite Fact Sheet

Not my opinion, but theirs. However, research from a University, which is funded most likely by the big chemical companies. Ivermectin doesn't work on Covid either, and natural immunity is non-existent.

 

[M.Magis]

There has never been any sort of study to suggest that DE is effective as a feed additive.

 

[TNtrout23]

Really good replies folks. Never thought about the barn swallows. I usually see a few barn in the spring and summer evenings when I'm mowing. I'm really digging the cattle curtains. The system looks really simple just couldn't think of exactly how to keep the wicking at a minimum so your not running through solution every few days but yet enough where it keeps the rope wet. I think that brand was like $140 for a 4' one.

 

[Brute 23]

We are working cows now. They get sprayed with ultraboss and co-ral. Lice and flies can be bad right now.

We keep fly bags out with co-ral or python powder.

The big rubs don't work for us. They don't even last a year. We get several years out of a bag.

If you can keep them black cows away from your pasture the flies aren't so bad.

 

[texoman]

Yes it is called Cattle curtain.
Used to be around $200... probably $400 now.
You can make your own, PVC, end caps, rope and connectors.
Fill it with Mineral oil and fly control product. (Or used motor oil if you are old school)
I mix in additives to make it thicker and also added small hose clamp on each rope (wick) which slows the drip down.

I'm curious about your home made deal. Do you have a picture? What additives do you use to make the product thicker?

 

[TNtrout23]

I'm curious about your home made deal. Do you have a picture? What additives do you use to make the product thicker?

I just installed mine today. We will see how it works

 

[gcreekrch]

Move north.

 

[TNtrout23]

Move north.

I'd rather have my family jewels sewn sewn to the carpet than move north