another down cow, least I know what to do.

[Ryder]

Toby I started reading your story last night. You have done a great job, hope your calf makes it.
One thing I will tell you,if you are going to tube that calf just one qt. at a time. You will need to feed it every couple of hours. She will not get enough to eat. Or feed it 2qts. at a time 3 times a day. Maybe since this is an early calf stick with the 1 qt. every couple of hours for the first week. Call your vet and get a shot of BO-SE also you can give her a shot of B-12. I use a supplement called RE-SORB it's an electolyte product. I use it because you can use it with milk.
Is the calf standing at all ? I know she is in your house ,but can you walk her ? Just standing will help her. One thing do not let her lay in one position all day and night. Turn her over every 4-6 hours.

Another good post.

 

[Toby L.]

Toby I started reading your story last night. You have done a great job, hope your calf makes it.
One thing I will tell you,if you are going to tube that calf just one qt. at a time. You will need to feed it every couple of hours. She will not get enough to eat. Or feed it 2qts. at a time 3 times a day. Maybe since this is an early calf stick with the 1 qt. every couple of hours for the first week. Call your vet and get a shot of BO-SE also you can give her a shot of B-12. I use a supplement called RE-SORB it's an electolyte product. I use it because you can use it with milk.
Is the calf standing at all ? I know she is in your house ,but can you walk her ? Just standing will help her. One thing do not let her lay in one position all day and night. Turn her over every 4-6 hours.

She's not standing at all, she's too weak. I think that if she doesn't show any sign of improvment today, I'm going to do the human thing and put her down. She get's pretty bloated just laying there so I have to roll her around, she burps alot then, but still bloated.

 

[Joy of Texas]

Toby I started reading your story last night. You have done a great job, hope your calf makes it.
One thing I will tell you,if you are going to tube that calf just one qt. at a time. You will need to feed it every couple of hours. She will not get enough to eat. Or feed it 2qts. at a time 3 times a day. Maybe since this is an early calf stick with the 1 qt. every couple of hours for the first week. Call your vet and get a shot of BO-SE also you can give her a shot of B-12. I use a supplement called RE-SORB it's an electolyte product. I use it because you can use it with milk.
Is the calf standing at all ? I know she is in your house ,but can you walk her ? Just standing will help her. One thing do not let her lay in one position all day and night. Turn her over every 4-6 hours.

She's not standing at all, she's too weak. I think that if she doesn't show any sign of improvment today, I'm going to do the human thing and put her down. She get's pretty bloated just laying there so I have to roll her around, she burps alot then, but still bloated.

Ok Toby do you have a square bale of hay. Bring it in and put her across it . Just put her across it for 15-20 mins. It will help with the bloating. She needs to move around alittle. Pull her up by her tail and a ear Anything just get that calf up for a bit.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Ok Toby do you have a square bale of hay. Bring it in and put her across it . Just put her across it for 15-20 mins. It will help with the bloating. She needs to move around alittle. Pull her up by her tail and a ear Anything just get that calf up for a bit.

Joy an old bath towel works great. Just give that calf a vigorous rub down with that towel. That would be similar to the nudging the calf would get from its dam. It also works okay when a calf doesn't want to take a bottle. One good rub down and it is all stimulated to move about.

 

[Toby L.]

She died. Weak calf coming from a weak cow.
Too much, too little, to late, who knows. Maybe I should have taken the calf when I first noticed the cow was down, maybe the dex would've helped, maybe, maybe, maybe.
Hate to think that I should've dispatched the cow and forgot about the baby, but I figured it was worth a try. And would it have been an end to a great story to have the calf survived.
I weighed the calf after she died and she was at 105 pounds, with 6 quart's of fluid in her. She had been urinating, so as far as birth weight, it's anyone guess.
We had put the tube in her without the bag to get some of the air out, and a lot came out. A few minutes later I went to check on her and she was burping a little more. A couple of minutes later she quite breathing, I massaged her lung area, and brought her back. Then after about 30 seconds she quite again so I tried it again with no success, so I slapped her rib cage a few times, nothing, so I started squeezing her some more. And the best way to subscribe it is all the stomach fluids came up and she choked on it. Well not choke, I guess she wasn't breathing anyway. After we got most of the fluids out of the way she took a couple of more breaths, but it wasn't enough. I even closed her mouth and 1 nostril and blew into the other one, but she was too weak to make it.
How much is too much? I guess it's different for everyone, a lot of people won't have went as far as I did, a lot of people would've done more. I suppose I could've spent the $1000 and hoisted the cow into the back of the truck and brought her to the vet so he could do the c-section and save the both of them, but ya, the both might have died anyway. It would have been a lot of work for me if the calf had lived, but now I guess it's easier. Would I do it again? You bet, I'm not sure what I would've done different, I guess every situation is different. Perhaps I would have giving the calf a full gallon of colstrum an hour after birth and got her in the house and warmed up sooner. Ya learn something new everyday.
I was just talking to my wife, I was wondering when this run of bad luck was going to be over. I think in about 10 years when I'm wise enough to know better.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Sorry you had such a tough break after going to all the extra work.

CMPK paste is not very expensive. When a cow goes down, usually you can put two tubes of paste in her and she gets up within 30 minutes. I don't know how it works, but it works if you catch them quick. Since my cows have loose minerals free choice, it is not about a mineral deficiency. An old vet put me on to that trick a few years back and I was amazed at the results. Mail ordering a dozen tubes of the paste will only cost you about $5 a tube. I keep it on hand now that I have seen it work. My oldest cows are 6 years old now but there are still tubes around, just in case.

You spoke of spending money. Yes I have spent a few hundred on a 3 day old calf only to have it die anyway.

 

[angie1]

She died.
Would I do it again? You bet, I'm not sure what I would've done different, I guess every situation is different.

Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda :help: I think you did a great job, and we all learned something from it. I am sorry you lost her.

 

[HerefordSire]

Toby...good job...it is better to try and fail then not try and fail. Clear conscience is the result. Never know when conscience will cloud judgement. Just don't get emotionally numb after all these bad experiences. I know I have a little.

 

[rusty]

Toby,
You did a good job.Hindsight is 20/20 and if you hadn't done anything they both would have probably died anyhow.The best part is the learning of it at least you can c-section now.

Sorry you had such a tough break after going to all the extra work.

CMPK paste is not very expensive.
Where can you get this paste?

 

[backhoeboogie]

CMPK paste is not very expensive.
Where can you get this paste?

Most large animal vets will have it. I just googled "CMPK Paste" and got a bunch of hits. Some place had it reasonable and I was going to get 6 tubes and the shipping was $18. Shipping was $20 for a dozen tubes so that is the route I went.

 

[dun]

Not that it matters now but BoSE is a prescription deal fro mthe vet

 

[Toby L.]

Thanks everyone for your advice and words of encouragement. You kind of wonder how many times a guy can get kicked in the balls before he finally goes down, I guess I can take a few more licks.

Not that it matters now but BoSE is a prescription deal fro mthe vet

So do you think that there may be some sort of selenium-deficiency? That may be one of the problems. All I've been using for minerals is the blocks I get from the feed store, and the fleet supply. It kind of makes me wonder why they would sell such an item if it doesn't provide all the minerals a cow may need. That's an other controversy I see on this site now and again, about the effectiveness of such blocks compared to mixing powder in the grain. I had 1800 pounds of corn ground up last week and put 50# of mineral in it, does anyone think that's enough? I suppose it all depends on what's in the 50 pounds of mineral. I also put 200# bean meal with it. The vet is coming out in a couple weeks, it would be a good idea to have him draw blood on some of the cows and have it analyzed to see if I'm missing anything.

 

[backhoeboogie]

So do you think that there may be some sort of selenium-deficiency? That may be one of the problems. All I've been using for minerals is the blocks I get from the feed store, and the fleet supply.

There are a lot of folks around here that never put out any minerals. They claim they are not needed here. I put out free choice loose minerals. At times the cows go for them but most of the time they don't much partake.

 

[hillsdown]

Toby so sorry to hear that your little girl didn't pull through..

Just know you did all you could do and gave it your very best, thank you for sharing your story..There are so many variables in your situation and it is only a guessing game at this point if anything would have changed the outcome..Do not beat yourselves up..

Good luck with the rest of your calving season and may all your mommas and babies be healthy, happy and born on warm sunny days.. :tiphat:

 

[rockridgecattle]

Good luck with the rest of your calving. You did the best you could do.
If your winter was and is anything like ours has been, the cold has really done a number on the cows. They have lost some condition, gained a bit back with the added grain, but they are a little rough around the edges. This winter has really shown some more on the cull list for the fall before calving even starts.
Rough summer + rough winter = rough calving, do the best you can do and leave the rest to the Guy upstairs.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

TobyL, you and your wife did a great job. Like you said, too many variables to speculate on. You worked with the situation you were in, did the best you could and learned a whole lot in the process. Most all of us have had a situation that had many possible outcomes depending on many variables as well, we've taken our chances, spent some $$ and learned a whole lot. One thing you have for sure learned, sometimes dealing with cattle one goes through some difficult times. If you mess with it long anough, its not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". We've all had our rough times, and we'll have them again.

As to your question about mineral and the debates regarding minerals. I use a loose mineral given free choice. Sometimes they go through it like candy, other times they just give a lick or two. I also give them salt free choice. If you really want to know what their nutrient intake is, have your hay sampled, your forage sampled and feed sampled. You'll get back as detailed an analysis as you request. That will give you an idea of what they may or may not be lacking in their diets.

Katherine

 

[spoon]

Toby I'm sorry your calf didn't make it. I had no advice to offer as it was all new to me but I learned a good deal and I really appreciate your sharing the whole experience with us. Hang in there and better luck next time!

 

[CKC1586]

Bummer. Sorry she didn't make it. You did your best, don't beat yourself up.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Toby
I have been keeping up on your post and That is the one ? we all ask ourselves did we do enough or did we do the right thing if we saved them all it would be great but just know that at least you tried an that is what counts

I would hate to be a Dr because you know that thought goes thru their heads everytime the lose a patient

as for the minerals I don't believe in the blocks keep a free choice mineral out with free choice salt the blocks they cannot consume enough to do them any good with the free choice if they need it they can eat it if they don't they won't different times of the yr and changes in forages make alot of difference in what they consume


Goodluck with the next one and keep your head up you did a good job

 

[Joy of Texas]

Aw Toby sorry for your loss. Keep your head up and keep on trucking. It might have been a situation you couldn't have help anyway. But I do give you an A plus for trying.