Grippie
Well-known member
I couldnt agree with you more lilmac! Exactly what I think when I read through some of these posts! Hey if he's throwing calves that you are happy with and you have a freezer full of beef- thats great!
Another Bull to judge?????
- Thread starter lilmac
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
I can tell you in my time, I have seen worse bulls. Heck go to the sale barn there will be half a dozen that are worse.
With that said a new bull is in order, but we all start somewhere. The bottom is as good a spot as any. :shock:
Alacowman, I agree with the other posts you are the type of people these boards should be about. Dun is also a class act, lots of info and understanding. thanks
MD
With that said a new bull is in order, but we all start somewhere. The bottom is as good a spot as any. :shock:
Alacowman, I agree with the other posts you are the type of people these boards should be about. Dun is also a class act, lots of info and understanding. thanks
MD
memanpa
Well-known member
ttclmTurnThatCowLooseMaw":2gyd2ljd said:
talk about the need to grow up!! you have no room to even point a finger!!
lilmac ignore the village idiots! they know who they are! constructive criticizing is important to all of us, ranting and raving and GOING OFF well just remember who it is that is blowing the smoke!
if the bull is working for you great!!! you got some good tips in what too look for when you replace him.
ttclm states you wasted $500.00 i do not see any wasted money as on a bad day those calves i see in the pics will make that up at any sale!!! cows free! $500 bull, calves on the ground that equals money in the bank in the real world of cattlemen! and i do not mean those that are pretenders
there some good folks on this forum and more than a few that are total (WELL not going there, because that is part of a man)
SEC
Well-known member
I question your thinking to put the bull on the post, kind of like setting people up for the fall. We all have a responsibility in this beef industry to be making a positive impact and try to make things as strong as can be. I won't tell anyone how much money to spend on breeding stock or where to spend it, but at least shoot for quality. That's all that anyone can ask!
I personally thought posting the pic of the bull was a joke. Like American Idol when they have these singers tryout and are really terrible......all for the sake of ratings.
If you have got such a good deal on these cattle you owe it to everyone to spend a little of what you saved and invest in better genetics.
I personally thought posting the pic of the bull was a joke. Like American Idol when they have these singers tryout and are really terrible......all for the sake of ratings.
If you have got such a good deal on these cattle you owe it to everyone to spend a little of what you saved and invest in better genetics.
Kent
Well-known member
Hey, lilmac, I've seen worse bulls. Heck, I've raised a few that didn't look better. I wanted them to be good because of the cow and sire they came from, but they just turned out bad and I had to get rid of them without even using them and go elsewhere to buy a bull. Don't feel embarrassed of an ugly bull, and don't let anyone tell you they have never raised an ugly one. Either they're lying or they haven't raised many bulls. It's not your fault he's ugly, and $500 is a great price because he will bring more than that by the pound.
If you are trying to improve your herd, just keep the top half of your heifers and when it comes time to breed them, get a better bull and turn your generations as quickly as you can. Use a better bull each generation, and you will have some fine cows. I would pick a breed of bull and use that breed for three generations before even considering another breed for the sake of uniformity of type and color. Let this bull you have now be the last one you buy because he is cheap.
One other thing: when you are taking pictures for feedback, try to take pictures from the standard angles. It makes it easier to judge the animal. For a side view, position your self even with the hooks or hips, not the middle or shoulder. Put the camera level with the animal's topline, not above or below. Try to get the animal in a pose with the rear leg back so you can see the scrotum, and the front feet even and squarely under the animal. Get a helper to make him look straight ahead and "get ears" so we can see neck extension. Even pretty bulls can look bad in awkward poses or from bad camera angles.
If you are trying to improve your herd, just keep the top half of your heifers and when it comes time to breed them, get a better bull and turn your generations as quickly as you can. Use a better bull each generation, and you will have some fine cows. I would pick a breed of bull and use that breed for three generations before even considering another breed for the sake of uniformity of type and color. Let this bull you have now be the last one you buy because he is cheap.
One other thing: when you are taking pictures for feedback, try to take pictures from the standard angles. It makes it easier to judge the animal. For a side view, position your self even with the hooks or hips, not the middle or shoulder. Put the camera level with the animal's topline, not above or below. Try to get the animal in a pose with the rear leg back so you can see the scrotum, and the front feet even and squarely under the animal. Get a helper to make him look straight ahead and "get ears" so we can see neck extension. Even pretty bulls can look bad in awkward poses or from bad camera angles.
memanpa":mw08dm59 said:ttclmTurnThatCowLooseMaw":mw08dm59 said:
talk about the need to grow up!! you have no room to even point a finger!!
lilmac ignore the village idiots! they know who they are! constructive criticizing is important to all of us, ranting and raving and GOING OFF well just remember who it is that is blowing the smoke!
if the bull is working for you great!!! you got some good tips in what too look for when you replace him.
ttclm states you wasted $500.00 i do not see any wasted money as on a bad day those calves i see in the pics will make that up at any sale!!! cows free! $500 bull, calves on the ground that equals money in the bank in the real world of cattlemen! and i do not mean those that are pretenders
there some good folks on this forum and more than a few that are total (WELL not going there, because that is part of a man)
Well said.
MD
VanC
Well-known member
teletigger":1mp1t314 said:
No, you are not wrong.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
lilmac, I could tell without a doupt at first glance what your bull is. Of corse there are no EPD's. It was my way of trying to be nice.
mnmt
mnmt
lilmac
Well-known member
Thank you Kent, you have been very helpful I have learned a lot from your post. This kind of help is what I thought I was to expect. (Boy was I wrong)
Thank the rest of you on this F-O-R-U-M for your helpful C-O-M-M-E-N-T-S
I am sorry if anyone else was offended by my bad spelling, typos, and grammar.
I ran this one through word first so I could spell check. I hope that it comes out a little better. I have read several posts that should have been spellchecked and
never once even thought about criticizing the individual because they were more interested in cattle than spelling. I should have known that points would be taken
off for this when last month a person asked about Ireland, and a young boy, eager to help, got hammered unmercifully for his spelling, and grammar. (What a shame).
Unfortunately my learning disability is permanent but I am not stupid. I realize that the mighty must to prey on the old, the young, and the week, and I fall into two out of three.
I have a very serious (maybe stupid to some) question to ask you. And please respond only if you have an answer, and save the sarcasm for latter. You can run posts scores up on another topic. It has been suggested that the bull be
castrated, after that, then what. I am not going to feed dead weight. He is to sorry to eat. Even I can't eat 2000#+ of hamburger, and no one would buy him steered. If I sell him as is, for whatever I can get then someone else will put him
on cows, and the genetic thing will still be going on. If I put a bullet in his head and drag him of into a canyon then I am really out. So what is the answer?
I will have a black angus before this is all over, but what about this bull?
Thank you ,
Mac
Thank the rest of you on this F-O-R-U-M for your helpful C-O-M-M-E-N-T-S
I am sorry if anyone else was offended by my bad spelling, typos, and grammar.
I ran this one through word first so I could spell check. I hope that it comes out a little better. I have read several posts that should have been spellchecked and
never once even thought about criticizing the individual because they were more interested in cattle than spelling. I should have known that points would be taken
off for this when last month a person asked about Ireland, and a young boy, eager to help, got hammered unmercifully for his spelling, and grammar. (What a shame).
Unfortunately my learning disability is permanent but I am not stupid. I realize that the mighty must to prey on the old, the young, and the week, and I fall into two out of three.
I have a very serious (maybe stupid to some) question to ask you. And please respond only if you have an answer, and save the sarcasm for latter. You can run posts scores up on another topic. It has been suggested that the bull be
castrated, after that, then what. I am not going to feed dead weight. He is to sorry to eat. Even I can't eat 2000#+ of hamburger, and no one would buy him steered. If I sell him as is, for whatever I can get then someone else will put him
on cows, and the genetic thing will still be going on. If I put a bullet in his head and drag him of into a canyon then I am really out. So what is the answer?
I will have a black angus before this is all over, but what about this bull?
Thank you ,
Mac
Bama
Well-known member
When it comes to judging bulls it can come across as harsh. The reason is a bull has a heck of a lot to do with your herd. He is 50 % of all the calves off of him. A crappy bull will contribute to a crappy crop of calves. The biggest way to improve your herd is through bull power. That why everone is set about a bad looking bull.
Now for my comments. You would have been money ahead to have sold one of those cows and put it with the $500 and bought a better bull. If your only interested in getting calves he can do that, but to get better calves you need more bull power. TTCLM actually gave you some good advice about what to look for in a better bull.
Disclaimer: I don't mean to offend, you ask what I thought and I replied. My replies are my honest opinions and to the point.
Now for my comments. You would have been money ahead to have sold one of those cows and put it with the $500 and bought a better bull. If your only interested in getting calves he can do that, but to get better calves you need more bull power. TTCLM actually gave you some good advice about what to look for in a better bull.
Disclaimer: I don't mean to offend, you ask what I thought and I replied. My replies are my honest opinions and to the point.
lilmac
Well-known member
Kent, I hate you make you look at this ugly thing again, but am I any closer to the kind of picture that I should send? I know that the head is facing wrong, but again this is an old picture.
Thank you
Mac
Thank you
Mac
Lilmac,
Without a doubt that bull needs to be removed from your operation and replaced with a higher quality animal. That point has been made very clear. I'll give you my opinion and that's all it is, an opinion. Don't bother castrating the bull. He won't bring substantially more money then if he's sold as a slaughter bull. His age will work against him as a steer and he won't have the quality to command a premium price. Sell him at your local livestock market as a slaughter bull. That way you won't have to worry about his genetics being passed on to another producer.
Secondly, you won't be able to offset the purchase of a new bull with the procedes from your bull. But since the cows were given to you and your bull only cost $500, then you should be able to afford paying the difference. You should be able to find a bull in the $1300 - $1500 range that will work well for you. Going with the "low cost" bull will actually work against you in two ways. First, a "low cost" bull will actually cost you money. And secondly, a "low cost" bull will not give you flexibility. The cattle industry and it's markets are dynamic in nature. It's like trying to hit a moving target. If you don't taylor your bull selection criteria so that you are afforded options, then you are selecting a bull that will potentially fail you. Go with a well balanced bull to lay the foundation. That way you will have options if need be. And as you modify your herd and refine your business plan, you then can get more specialized in your bull selecting criteria.
My friend once told me "a good bull is half your calf crop. A bad bull is your entire calf crop for many years." Just think about that for a second. That statement should ring in your head each and every time you ponder making an adjustment to your herd. As simple as that statement is, it is a crede that should be adhered to.
Nobody expects you to take their advice and begin implementing procedures to become a seedstock producer or compete to be the best commercial cattleman in your area. All we are attempting to do is better our industry and better it's participants. Do some research on the type of calves that have traditionally sold well in your area. The time you spend researching will pay dividends for you.
kvcanes
Without a doubt that bull needs to be removed from your operation and replaced with a higher quality animal. That point has been made very clear. I'll give you my opinion and that's all it is, an opinion. Don't bother castrating the bull. He won't bring substantially more money then if he's sold as a slaughter bull. His age will work against him as a steer and he won't have the quality to command a premium price. Sell him at your local livestock market as a slaughter bull. That way you won't have to worry about his genetics being passed on to another producer.
Secondly, you won't be able to offset the purchase of a new bull with the procedes from your bull. But since the cows were given to you and your bull only cost $500, then you should be able to afford paying the difference. You should be able to find a bull in the $1300 - $1500 range that will work well for you. Going with the "low cost" bull will actually work against you in two ways. First, a "low cost" bull will actually cost you money. And secondly, a "low cost" bull will not give you flexibility. The cattle industry and it's markets are dynamic in nature. It's like trying to hit a moving target. If you don't taylor your bull selection criteria so that you are afforded options, then you are selecting a bull that will potentially fail you. Go with a well balanced bull to lay the foundation. That way you will have options if need be. And as you modify your herd and refine your business plan, you then can get more specialized in your bull selecting criteria.
My friend once told me "a good bull is half your calf crop. A bad bull is your entire calf crop for many years." Just think about that for a second. That statement should ring in your head each and every time you ponder making an adjustment to your herd. As simple as that statement is, it is a crede that should be adhered to.
Nobody expects you to take their advice and begin implementing procedures to become a seedstock producer or compete to be the best commercial cattleman in your area. All we are attempting to do is better our industry and better it's participants. Do some research on the type of calves that have traditionally sold well in your area. The time you spend researching will pay dividends for you.
kvcanes
cypressfarms
Well-known member
lilmac":hsnx36oo said:
Beef prices are still very high. Take him to your local auction barn, and he'll bring more than $500. Good downpayment on another bull.
No need to go through word spellcheck. Everyone makes typo's, and I can't believe the person criticized you for that. Talk about the pot and the kettle!
SEC
Well-known member
I liked his 1st picture better.
Kent
Well-known member
lilmac,
When you get ready to sell him, just take him to your nearest cattle auction, or "sale barn". There will be order buyers there buying cows and bulls (not calves, they are usually bought by separate buyers) for slaughter. They will buy a number of semi trailer loads and the cattle will be trucked directly from the sale to a slaughtering facility--no feeding period. This is what you eat at Taco Bell, Krystal, White Castle, Burger King, Wendy's, etc. as hamburger meat. The steaks from acceptably fat animals (they won't be fat, just in good condition) will go to the Golden Corrals, Western Sizzlins, and Bonanzas of the world.
Your bull will be sold by the pound and he will be sold. Right now, where I live, bulls like yours are bringing from 60 to 70 cents per pound depending on how fat they are. Yours looks like one that would bring in the low 60's here. So, at say 62 cents per pound and a weight of 1500 pounds, minus sale commission of about 3 percent, he should bring you something like 900 dollars.
If he's just finished breeding your cows, you have time to buy a 9-12 month old bull calf and raise him to breeding age, which is about 15 months if you have only a few cows. Nine hundred dollars might not be enough to buy the kind of bull calf you need, but it will buy one better than the one you had. Put a little more with it and you can buy a nice bull this way. Spend the money to feed this bull calf properly. It is critical.
Here is an example of a good picture pose:
I know you can't get poses quite like this one, but it gives you an idea of the angles you want to take pictures from.
When you get ready to sell him, just take him to your nearest cattle auction, or "sale barn". There will be order buyers there buying cows and bulls (not calves, they are usually bought by separate buyers) for slaughter. They will buy a number of semi trailer loads and the cattle will be trucked directly from the sale to a slaughtering facility--no feeding period. This is what you eat at Taco Bell, Krystal, White Castle, Burger King, Wendy's, etc. as hamburger meat. The steaks from acceptably fat animals (they won't be fat, just in good condition) will go to the Golden Corrals, Western Sizzlins, and Bonanzas of the world.
Your bull will be sold by the pound and he will be sold. Right now, where I live, bulls like yours are bringing from 60 to 70 cents per pound depending on how fat they are. Yours looks like one that would bring in the low 60's here. So, at say 62 cents per pound and a weight of 1500 pounds, minus sale commission of about 3 percent, he should bring you something like 900 dollars.
If he's just finished breeding your cows, you have time to buy a 9-12 month old bull calf and raise him to breeding age, which is about 15 months if you have only a few cows. Nine hundred dollars might not be enough to buy the kind of bull calf you need, but it will buy one better than the one you had. Put a little more with it and you can buy a nice bull this way. Spend the money to feed this bull calf properly. It is critical.
Here is an example of a good picture pose:
I know you can't get poses quite like this one, but it gives you an idea of the angles you want to take pictures from.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
thats the thing what about this one. athough he aint good he's yours and it dont do no good to shut the gate after the cow is out. can just matter worse take this bull and maybe a cull cow or two and its easy to move up in the bull dept. providing you know what to look for and after this tutorial i hope you do ;-)lilmac":nhbf3223 said:
Lilmac,
Don't take too much personal, although the crack about spelling was a bit harsh and needed not to be posted. We all do it.
Now listen to what the vast majority of post are saying, cut through everything and hear what is being said. This bull is not going to help your program, sell him and invest in a better quaility bull and you will improve your herd quaility much quicker. Good luck!
JMO,
Alan
Don't take too much personal, although the crack about spelling was a bit harsh and needed not to be posted. We all do it.
Now listen to what the vast majority of post are saying, cut through everything and hear what is being said. This bull is not going to help your program, sell him and invest in a better quaility bull and you will improve your herd quaility much quicker. Good luck!
JMO,
Alan
Bama
Well-known member
Try remembering this.
That bull is somewhat lacking in the rear portion. His muscle tone is slightly under the expectations of a bull that will be used for breeding. He may need to fill out just a wee bit more to develop into a bull of the type that will improve your cattle herd, assuming thats the goal your are striving for. Its not the bulls fault, some of them are not born with the genetics to develop into a nice sound breeding bull. Altough he has a perpose in life. It is just not in being a herd bull. Its not your fault either. He had the chance to eat at the feed trough just like all the other calves that was with him at the time. Its probally not his mothers fault either. I'm sure she did all she could do in passing off her better genes to him. Its not her fault that he turned out looking so poorly. Its not really anyones fault some things are just not meant to be. He does look good standing in that field of daiseys. The yellow and white flowers over his back make him more persentable. The purple flower in front of him looks great against his shoulder.
or remember this.
He's a hachet butt that should have been cut a long time ago.
during your next trip to the salebarn which advice did you learn from.???
Disclaimer: not describing any bull in perticular.
That bull is somewhat lacking in the rear portion. His muscle tone is slightly under the expectations of a bull that will be used for breeding. He may need to fill out just a wee bit more to develop into a bull of the type that will improve your cattle herd, assuming thats the goal your are striving for. Its not the bulls fault, some of them are not born with the genetics to develop into a nice sound breeding bull. Altough he has a perpose in life. It is just not in being a herd bull. Its not your fault either. He had the chance to eat at the feed trough just like all the other calves that was with him at the time. Its probally not his mothers fault either. I'm sure she did all she could do in passing off her better genes to him. Its not her fault that he turned out looking so poorly. Its not really anyones fault some things are just not meant to be. He does look good standing in that field of daiseys. The yellow and white flowers over his back make him more persentable. The purple flower in front of him looks great against his shoulder.
or remember this.
He's a hachet butt that should have been cut a long time ago.
during your next trip to the salebarn which advice did you learn from.???
Disclaimer: not describing any bull in perticular.
