Angus sire that produces the best daughters

[Bez+]

In regard to fertility, calving ease, and udder, and genestar marker tests -- What Angus sire will produce the best females for a foundation herd?

Phenotype is of great importance in addition to a great genotype -- I like 'em pretty.

My goal is to start by A.I.'ing good quality registered Angus females to proven "super daughter" producing A.I. sires, retain 10 females who are from those sires and immediately breed them to the other top sires in the industry. I can't afford a $10,000 bull but I can see the benefit of a $30 straw.

When you find the bull that produces the best females for a foundation herd - across the board - given the vast and incredible variety of quality (or lack thereof) you will find in cows - let us all know. We would like to buy in.

If only it were that simple.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Frankie]

In regard to fertility, calving ease, and udder, and genestar marker tests -- What Angus sire will produce the best females for a foundation herd?

Phenotype is of great importance in addition to a great genotype -- I like 'em pretty.

My goal is to start by A.I.'ing good quality registered Angus females to proven "super daughter" producing A.I. sires, retain 10 females who are from those sires and immediately breed them to the other top sires in the industry. I can't afford a $10,000 bull but I can see the benefit of a $30 straw.

When you find the bull that produces the best females for a foundation herd - across the board - given the vast and incredible variety of quality (or lack thereof) you will find in cows - let us all know. We would like to buy in.

If only it were that simple.

Cheers

Bez+

There's probably no such critter, but the closest Angus bull I've ever seen was N Bar Emulation EXT. You know he wasn't one of those hyped Denver yearling bulls? He was sold, sight unseen, off N Bar to a commercial breeder. After several calf crops, people started noticing the quality of his calves and asking about using him, then ABS got involved. The rest is Angus history.

As for disposition, before we used him, I asked the guys working at our bull test station about EXT disposition. They laughed in my face. They said, considering disposition on all the bulls of various breeds, EXT calves weren't a problem. Sure there were some EXT nutcase, but I think you'll find very few bulls that don't produce a nutcase or two in thousands of breedings.

 

[jscunn]

There were way more than a couple per thousand, Frankie.

 

[Arkieman]

I suggest you look at the SAF website under cows http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/cows.html

Click on those cows and you'll notice that many/most are direct daughters or grand-daughters of S A F 598 Bando 5175 . I'd think he would have to be included in this conversation. There are some really nice cows represented there.

 

[jscunn]

Well we have achieved both ends of the spectrum (Prime Time and 5175) with this discussion. I think that they are both right. It depends on what you want to accomplish and what feed resources you have to work with. Arkieman, you are right about one thing the udders on the SAV 5175 daughters sure are good.

 

[Oldtimer]

I suggest you look at the SAF website under cows http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/cows.html

Click on those cows and you'll notice that many/most are direct daughters or grand-daughters of S A F 598 Bando 5175 . I'd think he would have to be included in this conversation. There are some really nice cows represented there.

:???: Just my opinion-- But to me looking at his numbers- he would be a one way trip to a trainwreck on a herd of range cattle or cows that run unsupplemented in true range conditions- unless I owned a feed store....

CED +3
BW +5.2
WW +61
YW +113
Milk +31
MW +62
MH +1.0
$EN -8.50

 

[Bez+]

I suggest you look at the SAF website under cows http://www.schaffangusvalley.com/cows.html

Click on those cows and you'll notice that many/most are direct daughters or grand-daughters of S A F 598 Bando 5175 . I'd think he would have to be included in this conversation. There are some really nice cows represented there.

:???: Just my opinion-- But to me looking at his numbers- he would be a one way trip to a trainwreck on a herd of range cattle or cows that run unsupplemented in true range conditions- unless I owned a feed store....

CED +3
BW +5.2
WW +61
YW +113
Milk +31
MW +62
MH +1.0
$EN -8.50

This person was looking for the all singing and all dancing sire.

I agree with you on this one OT. We have a few animals that have never tasted anything but grass and hay - they do very well - but I am not so sure I would put this guy on them.

Be that as it may .......

Everyone forgets the important fact - and I see it here all the time when someone calls up and asks - Which bull do I use on my cows?

I know I will take some flak for this, but the worst folks in the crowd are the Angus folks - seems like they all have the perfect animal and you can see it in any of the posts should you care to go do a search. No one asked a thing about the cows and then they started lining up bulls.

The original poster claims to have good quality registered cows.

Well folks - we have all seen good quality and registered crap on this forum - so how do we know what he is breeding?

Just because it is registered does not mean it is worthy of anything more than a knackers knife.

Remember - no one has seen those cows and no one has seen their calves - but they start popping off on the best bull for the job.

You have to look at the COWS you will be breeding to.

There never has been and there never will be an animal that fits the original posters request - never been a one size fits all.

Anyone promoting their animal as a one size fits all is a charlatan.

Bring on the arrows - but prove me wrong.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Northern Rancher]

<a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/?action=view&current=P1010880.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/P1010880.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Not sure if this will work but this sums of EXT in a nutshell-I took this picture with a 10X zoom lens-guess which cow is EXT bred. If you won the disposition lottery and got one that was decent good on you but the odds are alot better you'd get something like this highheaded piece of crap. I'm not even sure I'm a good enough of a shot to round her up with a .270.

 

[Northern Rancher]

<a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/?action=view&current=P1010880.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/Rancher1962/P1010880.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I'll try once more!!!

 

[Northern Rancher]

Photobucket you've betrayed me lol.

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't think it really matters what the cows look like. Whether you have the cows of your dreams and are perfectly happy with them or you ran down to the stockyard and bought every tricolored horned roan mongrel nobody else would bid on; the bull that you should buy to produce females is the same. You want the bull that sires YOUR ideal type females. I don't subscribe to the view of matching each cow to the bull that best matches her. If a cow is so cow hocked that you need to breed her to a postlegged bull maybe you shouldn't be keeping her heifers in the first place. Dittoe with breeding a frame 8 cow to a Lowline bull in hopes of getting a frame 5 heifer. If the question is "Which Angus bull sires the best females?" I really don't see why we would need to know the history of the cows we were going to breed him too.

 

[Bez+]

I don't think it really matters what the cows look like. ..........

If the question is "Which Angus bull sires the best females?" I really don't see why we would need to know the history of the cows we were going to breed him too.

Because Angus A crossed to that sway backed cull will do a great job.

Angus B crossed to that witch with the attitude will do a great job

Swap A and B and you have a disaster

No such thing as a sire that will put out the best females in all cases.

Tell you what - pick the sire you want and breed to an unknown (and in this case unseen) group of females.

I will pick my sire after a review of the cows and their previous years offspring - and if possible - their mothers as well.

My herd - all things being equal should do better than yours.

Surprised you cannot see it.

Out of here - I think this will go round and round - I will stick to a breeding program - others can go and roll the dice on the perfect bull and some unknown / unseen females.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Frankie]

Well we have achieved both ends of the spectrum (Prime Time and 5175) with this discussion. I think that they are both right. It depends on what you want to accomplish and what feed resources you have to work with. Arkieman, you are right about one thing the udders on the SAV 5175 daughters sure are good.

:lol: :lol: "both ends of the spectrum" and added in EXT/Right Time. What a wide range of genetics the Angus breed offers :!:

 

[Bez+]

Well we have achieved both ends of the spectrum (Prime Time and 5175) with this discussion. I think that they are both right. It depends on what you want to accomplish and what feed resources you have to work with. Arkieman, you are right about one thing the udders on the SAV 5175 daughters sure are good.

:lol: :lol: "both ends of the spectrum" and added in EXT/Right Time. What a wide range of genetics the Angus breed offers :!:

Might be good bulls - I have been known to use Angus on my Herfs by times and there might be a lot of Angus arrogance here - but there does not seem to be too much breeding knowledge.

Yeah and I really am out of here now.

Bez+

 

[alacattleman]

Well we have achieved both ends of the spectrum (Prime Time and 5175) with this discussion. I think that they are both right. It depends on what you want to accomplish and what feed resources you have to work with. Arkieman, you are right about one thing the udders on the SAV 5175 daughters sure are good.

:lol: :lol: "both ends of the spectrum" and added in EXT/Right Time. What a wide range of genetics the Angus breed offers :!:

Might be good bulls - I have been known to use Angus on my Herfs by times and there might be a lot of Angus arrogance here - but there does not seem to be too much breeding knowledge.
Yeah and I really am out of here now.

Bez+

well as long as you have angus... knowledge is secondary

 

[Frankie]

Might be good bulls - I have been known to use Angus on my Herfs by times and there might be a lot of Angus arrogance here - but there does not seem to be too much breeding knowledge.

Yeah and I really am out of here now.

Bez+

"Angus arrogance"? Interesting comment as you cut and run. :roll:

I don't see any arrogance; I see confidence in a breed of cattle that have been proven all across the country. The variety in the breed is unmatched. Why? Because other breeds either refused to meet the demands of the industry or they incorporated so much Angus into their breed that it's hard to make the claim that they're a real breed anymore.

As for "breeding knowledge", the guy asked for an opinion on the internet. He got several. Hereford breeders have done the same thing and got the same results. Strange, I don't remember you knocking those threads. Did I miss it?

 

[EAT BEEF]

Gary Meyer told me one time "I love a good angus cow just 9 out of 10 of them aren't any good".
Breed all your cows to the bull that fits your goals,cull the heifers hard and breed all of them back to a half brother that best fits your goals.A uniform group of cows that preform well under your management is a great thing.

The angus breed has a lot of variety, good for those in St.Joe and good for those who try to be all things to all people,but not so important to those that are trying to breed good old range cows.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Ah yes, gleanings from the field with a pinch of feciciousness from a sample of the participants. I typically use these boards to get leads and not necessarily commitments to base my benchmark. The original post was in regard to to fertility, calving ease, and udder, and genestar marker tests -- What Angus sire will produce the best females for a foundation herd?

It is obvious the term "the best" females should have been worded "outstanding" since the minutiae minutemen have been called to arms to point out all misgivings represented in the original request. Thank you Oldtimer and Frankie for some input as well as other names my short-term memory is not providing. Both N Bar Prime Time D806 and Emulation EXT were names that I needed.

First and foremost they have to get pregnant, secondly they must calve, third they must milk and hold up, and fourth they must taste good with marketable marbling or it is all a moot point. In no way was I looking to chase numbers but since a small number of head will be considered, a focused approach is optimal.

Let's find absolution without all the accountability.

Thanks for the comments,
Mr. Greenjeans

 

[Frankie]

It is obvious the term "the best" females should have been worded "outstanding" since the minutiae minutemen have been called to arms to point out all misgivings represented in the original request. Thank you Oldtimer and Frankie for some input as well as other names my short-term memory is not providing. Both N Bar Prime Time D806 and Emulation EXT were names that I needed.


Thanks for the comments,
Mr. Greenjeans

You're welcome. I recommended Leachman Right Time instead of EXT for a couple of reasons:

If you can find EXT semen, it's very expensive. Right Time's not cheap, but it is still available @ about $50 a straw. And in my opinion, Right Time cows are prettier than EXT cows.

 

[Brandonm22]

Because Angus A crossed to that sway backed cull will do a great job.

Angus B crossed to that witch with the attitude will do a great job

Swap A and B and you have a disaster

No such thing as a sire that will put out the best females in all cases.

Tell you what - pick the sire you want and breed to an unknown (and in this case unseen) group of females.

I will pick my sire after a review of the cows and their previous years offspring - and if possible - their mothers as well.

My herd - all things being equal should do better than yours.

Surprised you cannot see it.

Out of here - I think this will go round and round - I will stick to a breeding program - others can go and roll the dice on the perfect bull and some unknown / unseen females.

Cheers

Bez+

Yes, if you breed the sway backed cow to the roach backed bull or bred the crazy cow to the most mellow bull in the breed you MIGHT do better in the short run. Give it two or three generations though and the person who breeds all his cows to the consistent ideal that he wants his whole herd to be and culls towards that ideal will come out with a more uniform herd that comes closer to his ultimate goals every time (we call that a "breeding program"). Personally, I would rather NOT keep heifers out of the psycho cow OR the sway backed cull; and NOT scour the A.I. catalogs trying to find a bull to "fix them" but that is just me.